I think most of the issues with "vibe coding" is trusting the current level of LLM's with too much, as writing a hacky demo of a specific functionality is 1/10 as difficult as making a fully-fledged, dependable, scalable version of it.
Back in 2020, GPT-3 could code functional HTML from a text description, however it's only around now that AI can one-shot functional websites. Likewise, AI can one-shot a functional demo of a saas product, but they are far from being able to one-shot the entire engineering effort of a company like slack.
However, I don't see why the rate of improvement will not continue as it has. The current generation of LLM's haven't been event trained yet on NVidia's latest Blackwell chips.
I do agree that vibe-coding is like gambling, however that is besides the point that AI coding models are getting smarter at a rate that is not slowing down. Many people believe they will hit a sigmoid somewhere before they reach human intelligence, but there is no reason to believe that besides wishful thinking.
I think it all boils down to, which is higher risk, using AI too much, or using AI too little?
Right now I see the former as being hugely risky. Hallucinated bugs, coaxed into dead-end architectures, security concerns, not being familiar with the code when a bug shows up in production, less sense of ownership, less hands-on learning, etc. This is true both at the personal level and at the business level.
The latter, you may be less productive than optimal, but might the hands-on training and fundamental understanding of the codebase make up for it in the long run?
Additionally, I personally find my best ideas often happen when knee deep in some codebase, hitting some weird edge case that doesn't fit, that would probably never come up if I was just reviewing an already-completed PR.
Even if you believe that many are too far on one side now, you have to account for the fact that AI will get better rapidly. If you're not using it now you may end up lacking preparation when it becomes more valuable
Or just wait for things to settle. As fast as the field is moving, staying ahead of the game is probably high investment with little return, as the things you spend a ton of time honing today may be obsolete tomorrow, or simply built into existing products with much lower learning cost.
Note, if staying on the bleeding edge is what excites you, by all means do. I'm just saying for people who don't feel that urge, there's probably no harm just waiting for stuff to standardize and slow down. Either approach is fine so long as you're pragmatic about it.
Very reasonable take. The fact that this is being downvoted really shows how poor HN's collective critical thinking has become. Silicon Valley is cannibalizing itself and it's pretty funny to watch from the outside with a clear head.
The bit about "we have automated coding, but not software engineering" matches my experience. LLMs are good at writing individual functions but terrible at deciding which functions should exist.
My project has a C++ matching engine, Node.js orchestration, Python for ML inference, and a JS frontend. No LLM suggested that architecture - it came from hitting real bottlenecks. The LLMs helped write a lot of the implementation once I knew what shape it needed to be.
Where I've found AI most dangerous is the "dark flow" the article describes. I caught myself approving a generated function that looked correct but had a subtle fallback to rate-matching instead of explicit code mapping. Two different tax codes both had an effective rate of 0, so the rate-match picked the wrong one every time. That kind of domain bug won't get caught by an LLM because it doesn't understand your data model.
Architecture decisions and domain knowledge are still entirely on you. The typing is faster though.
I think a big part of this discussion lost for a lot is a lot of people are trying to copy/paste how we’ve been developing software over the past twenty years into this new world which simply doesn’t work effectively.
The differences are subtle but those of
us who are fully bought in (like myself) are working and thinking in a new way to develop effectively with LLMs. Is it perfect? Of course not - but is it dramatically more efficient than the previous era? 1000%. Some of the things I’ve done in the past month I really didn’t think were possible. I was skeptical but I think a new era is upon us and everyone should be hustling to adapt.
My favorite analogy at the moment is that for awhile now we’ve been bowling and been responsible for knocking down
the pins ourselves. In this new world we are no longer the bowlers, rather we are the builders of bumper rails
that keep the new bowlers from landing in the gutter.
> However, it is important to ask if you want to stop investing in your own skills because of a speculative prediction made by an AI researcher or tech CEO.
I don't think these are exclusive. Almost a year ago, I wrote a blog post about this [0]. I spent the time since then both learning better software design and learning to vibe code. I've worked through Domain-Driven Design Distilled, Domain-Driven Design, Implementing Domain-Driven Design, Design Patterns, The Art of Agile Software Development, 2nd Edition, Clean Architecture, Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns, and Tidy First?. I'm a far better software engineer than I was in 2024. I've also vibe coded [1] a whole lot of software [2], some good and some bad [3].
[1]: As defined in Vibe Coding: Building Production-Grade Software With GenAI, Chat, Agents, and Beyond by Gene Kim and Steve Yegge, wherein you still take responsibility for the code you deliver.
I personally found out that knowing how to use ai coding assistants productively is a skill like any other and a) it requires a significant investment of time b) can be quite rewarding to learn just as any other skill c) might be useful now or in the future and d) doesn't negate the usefulness of any other skills acquired on the past nor diminishes the usefulness of learning new skills in the future
Agreed, my experience and code quality with claude code and agentic workflows has dramatically increased since investing in learning how to properly use these tools. Ralph Wiggum based approaches and HumanLayer's agents/commands (in their .claude/) have boosted my productivity the most. https://github.com/snwfdhmp/awesome-ralphhttps://github.com/humanlayer
On the using AI assistants I find that everything is moving so fast that I feel constantly like "I'm doing this wrong". Is the answer simply "dedicate time to experimenting? I keep hearing "spec driven design" or "Ralph" maybe I should learn those? Genuine thoughts and questions btw.
More specifically regarding spec-driven development:
There's a good reason that most successful examples of those tools like openspec are to-do apps etc. As soon as the project grows to 'relevant' size of complexity, maintaining specs is just as hard as whatever other methodology offers. Also from my brief attempts - similar to human based coding, we actually do quite well with incomplete specs. So do agents, but they'll shrug at all the implicit things much more than humans do. So you'll see more flip-flopped things you did not specify, and if you nail everything down hard, the specs get unwieldy - large and overly detailed.
Everybody feels like this, and I think nobody stays ahead of the curve for a prolonged time. There's just too many wrinkles.
But also, you don't have to upgrade every iteration. I think it's absolutely worthwhile to step off the hamster wheel every now and then, just work with you head down for a while and come back after a few weeks. One notices that even though the world didn't stop spinning, you didn't get the whiplash of every rotation.
I think find what works for you, and everything else is kind of noise.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white so long as it catches mice.
——
Ive also found that picking something and learning about it helps me with mental models for picking up other paradigms later, similar to how learning Java doesn’t actually prevent you from say picking up Python or Javascript
I'm doing a similar thing. Recently, I got $100 to spend on books. The first two books I got were A Philosophy of Software Design, and Designing Data-Intensive Applications, because I asked myself, out of all the technical and software engineering related books that I might get, given agentic coding works quite well now, what are the most high impact ones?
And it seemed pretty clear to me that they would have to do with the sort of evergreen, software engineering and architecture concepts that you still need a human to design and think through carefully today, because LLMs don't have the judgment and a high-level view for that, not the specific API surface area or syntax, etc., of particular frameworks, libraries, or languages, which LLMs, IDE completion, and online documentation mostly handle.
Especially since well-designed software systems, with deep and narrow module interface, maintainable and scalable architectures, well chosen underlying technologies, clear data flow, and so on, are all things that can vastly increase the effectiveness of an AI coding agent, because they mean that it needs less context to understand things, can reason more locally, etc.
To be clear, this is not about not understanding the paradigms, capabilities, or affordances of the tech stack you choose, either! The next books I plan to get are things like Modern Operating Systems, Data-Oriented Design, Communicating Sequential Processes, and The Go Programming Language, because low level concepts, too, are things you can direct an LLM to optimize, if you give it the algorithm, but which they won't do themselves very well, and are generally also evergreen and not subsumed in the "platform minutea" described above.
Likewise, stretching your brain with new paradigms — actor oriented, Smalltalk OOP, Haskell FP, Clojure FP, Lisp, etc — gives you new ways to conceptualize and express your algorithms and architectures, and to judge and refine the code your LLM produces, and ideas like BDD, PBT, lightweight formal methods (like model checking), etc, all provide direct tools for modeling your domain, specifying behavior, and testing it far better, which then allow you to use agentic coding tools with more safety or confidence (and a better feedback loop for them) — at the limit almost creating a way to program declaratively in executible specifications, and then convert those to code via LLM, and then test the latter against the former!
DDD is quite nice as a philosophy. Like concatenate state based on behavioral similarity and keep mutation and query function close, model data structures from domain concepts and not the inverse, pay attention to domain boundary (an entity may be read only in some domain and have fewer state transition than in another).
But it should be a philosophy, not a directive. There are always tradeoffs to be made, and DDD may be the one to be sacrificed in order to get things done.
Agreed. I find most design patterns end up as a mess eventually, at least when followed religiously. DDD being one of the big offenders. They all seem to converge on the same type of "over engineered spaghetti" that LOOKS well factored at a glance, but is incredibly hard to understand or debug in practice.
I was going to ask the same thing. I'm self taught but I've mainly gone the other way, more interested in learning about lower level things. Bang for buck I think I might have been better reading DDD type books.
That AI would be writing 90% of the code at Anthropic was not a "failed prediction". If we take Anthropic's word for it, now their agents are writing 100% of the code:
Of course you can choose to believe that this is a lie and that Anthropic is hyping their own models, but it's impossible to deny the enormous revenue that the company is generating via the products they are now giving almost entirely to coding agents.
One thing I like to think about is: If these models were so powerful why would they ever sell access? They could just build endless products to sell, likely outcompeting anyone else who needs to employ humans. And if not building their own products they could be the highest value contractor ever.
Speaking just for myself, AI has allowed me to start doing projects that seemed daunting at first, as it automates much of the tedious act of actually typing code from the keyboard, and keeps me at a higher level.
But yes, I usually constrain my plans to one function, or one feature. Too much and it goes haywire.
I think a side benefit is that I think more about the problem itself, rather than the mechanisms of coding.
Actually, I wonder how they measured the 'speed' of coding, maybe I missed it. But if developers can spend more time thinking about the larger problems, that may be a cause of the slowdown. I guess it remains to be seen if the code quality or feature set improves.
Just because you’re a good programmer / software engineer doesn’t mean you’re a good architect, or a good UI designer, or a good product manager. Yet in my experience, using LLMs to successfully produce software really works those architect, designer, and manager muscles, and thus requires them to be strong.
I see AI coding as something like project management. You could delegate all of the tasks to an LLM, or you could assign some to yourself.
If you keep some for yourself, there’s a possibility that you might not churn out as much code as quickly as someone delegating all programming to AI. But maybe shipping 45,000 lines a day instead of 50,000 isn’t that bad.
You need to understand the frustration behind these kinds of posts.
The people on the start of the curve are the ones who swear against LLMs for engineering, and are the loudest in the comments.
The people on the end of the curve are the ones who spam about only vibing, not looking at code and are attempting to build this new expectation for the new interaction layer for software to be LLM exclusively. These ones are the loudest on posts/blogs.
The ones in the middle are people who accept using LLMs as a tool, and like with all tools they exercise restraint and caution. Because waiting 5 to 10 seconds each time for an LLM to change the color of your font, and getting it wrong is slower than just changing it yourself. You might as well just go in and do these tiny adjustments yourself.
It's the engineers at both ends that have made me lose my will to live.
The point about vibe coding eroding fundamentals resonates. I've noticed that when I lean too heavily on LLM-generated code, I stop thinking about edge cases and error handling — the model optimizes for the happy path and so do I. The real skill shift isn't coding vs not coding, it's learning to be a better reviewer and architect of code you didn't write yourself.
Fascinating - I find the opposite is true. I think of edge cases more and direct the exploration of them. I’ve found my 35 years experience tells me where the gaps will be and I’m usually right. I’ve been able to build much more complex software than before not because I didn’t know how but because as one person I couldn’t possibly do it. The process isn’t any easier just faster.
I’ve found also AI assisted stuff is remarkable for algorithmically complex things to implement.
However one thing I definitely identify with is the trouble sleeping. I am finally able to do a plethora of things I couldn’t do before due to the limits of one man typing. But I don’t build tools I don’t need, I have too little time and too many needs.
> A study from METR found that when developers used AI tools, they estimated that they were working 20% faster, yet in reality they worked 19% slower. That is nearly a 40% difference between perceived and actual times!
It’s not. It’s either 33% slower than perceived or perception overestimates speed by 50%. I don’t know how to trust the author if stuff like this is wrong.
I get caught up personally in this math as well. Is a charitable interpretation of the throwaway line that they were off by that many “percentage points”?
Their math is 120%-80%=40% while the correct math is (80-120)/120=-33% or (120-80)/80=+50%
It’s more obvious if you take more extreme numbers, say: they estimated to take 99% less time with AI, but it took 99% more time - the difference is not 198%, but 19900%. Suddenly you’re off by two orders of magnitude.
The addiction aspect of this is real. I was skeptical at first, but this past week I built three apps and experienced issues with stepping away or getting enough sleep. Eventually my discipline kicked in to make this a more healthy habit, but I was surprised by how compelling it is to turn ideas into working prototypes instantly. Ironically, the rate limits on my Claude and Codex subscriptions helped me to pace myself.
Isn't struggling to get enough sleep or shower enough and so on because you're so involved with the process of, you know, programming, especially interactive, exploratory programming with an immediate feedback loop, kind of a known phenomenon for programmers since essentially the dawn of interactive computing?
i used to lose hours each day to typos, linting issues, bracket-instead-of-curly-bracket, 'was it the first parameter or the second parameter', looking up accumulator/anonymous function callback syntax AGAIN...
idk what ya'll are doing with AI, and i dont really care. i can finally - fiiinally - stay focused on the problem im trying to solve for more than 5 minutes.
tl;dr - author cites a study from early 2025 which measured developer speed of “experienced open source developers” to be ~20% slower when supported by AI, while they’ve estimated to be ~20% faster.
Note: the study used sonnet-3.5 and sonnet-3.7; there weren’t any agents, deep research or similar tools available. I’d like to see this study done again with:
1. juniors ans mid-level engineers
2. opus-4.6 high and codex-5.2 xhigh
3. Tasks that require upfront research
4. Tasks that require stakeholder communication, which can be facilitated by AI
"they don’t produce useful layers of abstraction nor meaningful modularization. They don’t value conciseness or improving organization in a large code base. We have automated coding, but not software engineering"
Which frankly describes pretty much all real world commercial software projects I've been on, too.
Software engineering hasn't happened yet. Agents produce big balls of mud because we do, too.
which is why the most famous book in the world of software development pointed out that the long term success of a software project is not defined by man hours or lines of code written but by documentation, clear interfaces and the capacity to manage the complexity of a project.
Maybe they need to start handing out copies of the mythical man month again because people seem to be oblivious to insights we already had a few decades ago
I think most of the issues with "vibe coding" is trusting the current level of LLM's with too much, as writing a hacky demo of a specific functionality is 1/10 as difficult as making a fully-fledged, dependable, scalable version of it.
Back in 2020, GPT-3 could code functional HTML from a text description, however it's only around now that AI can one-shot functional websites. Likewise, AI can one-shot a functional demo of a saas product, but they are far from being able to one-shot the entire engineering effort of a company like slack.
However, I don't see why the rate of improvement will not continue as it has. The current generation of LLM's haven't been event trained yet on NVidia's latest Blackwell chips.
I do agree that vibe-coding is like gambling, however that is besides the point that AI coding models are getting smarter at a rate that is not slowing down. Many people believe they will hit a sigmoid somewhere before they reach human intelligence, but there is no reason to believe that besides wishful thinking.
I think it all boils down to, which is higher risk, using AI too much, or using AI too little?
Right now I see the former as being hugely risky. Hallucinated bugs, coaxed into dead-end architectures, security concerns, not being familiar with the code when a bug shows up in production, less sense of ownership, less hands-on learning, etc. This is true both at the personal level and at the business level.
The latter, you may be less productive than optimal, but might the hands-on training and fundamental understanding of the codebase make up for it in the long run?
Additionally, I personally find my best ideas often happen when knee deep in some codebase, hitting some weird edge case that doesn't fit, that would probably never come up if I was just reviewing an already-completed PR.
Even if you believe that many are too far on one side now, you have to account for the fact that AI will get better rapidly. If you're not using it now you may end up lacking preparation when it becomes more valuable
Even within AI coding how people use this varies wildly from one people trying to one shot apps to people being barely above tab completers.
When people talk about this stuff they usually mean very different techniques. And last months way of doing it goes away in favor of a new technique.
I think the best you can do now is try lots of different new ways of working keep an open mind
Or just wait for things to settle. As fast as the field is moving, staying ahead of the game is probably high investment with little return, as the things you spend a ton of time honing today may be obsolete tomorrow, or simply built into existing products with much lower learning cost.
Note, if staying on the bleeding edge is what excites you, by all means do. I'm just saying for people who don't feel that urge, there's probably no harm just waiting for stuff to standardize and slow down. Either approach is fine so long as you're pragmatic about it.
Very reasonable take. The fact that this is being downvoted really shows how poor HN's collective critical thinking has become. Silicon Valley is cannibalizing itself and it's pretty funny to watch from the outside with a clear head.
I think it's like the California gold rush. Anybody and their brother can go out and dig, but the real money is in selling the shovels.
This is basically Pascal’s wager. However, unlike the original Pascal’s wager, yours actually sounds sound.
Another good alike wager I remember is: “What if climate change is a hoax, and we invested in all this clean energy infrastructure for nothing”.
The bit about "we have automated coding, but not software engineering" matches my experience. LLMs are good at writing individual functions but terrible at deciding which functions should exist.
My project has a C++ matching engine, Node.js orchestration, Python for ML inference, and a JS frontend. No LLM suggested that architecture - it came from hitting real bottlenecks. The LLMs helped write a lot of the implementation once I knew what shape it needed to be.
Where I've found AI most dangerous is the "dark flow" the article describes. I caught myself approving a generated function that looked correct but had a subtle fallback to rate-matching instead of explicit code mapping. Two different tax codes both had an effective rate of 0, so the rate-match picked the wrong one every time. That kind of domain bug won't get caught by an LLM because it doesn't understand your data model.
Architecture decisions and domain knowledge are still entirely on you. The typing is faster though.
I think a big part of this discussion lost for a lot is a lot of people are trying to copy/paste how we’ve been developing software over the past twenty years into this new world which simply doesn’t work effectively.
The differences are subtle but those of us who are fully bought in (like myself) are working and thinking in a new way to develop effectively with LLMs. Is it perfect? Of course not - but is it dramatically more efficient than the previous era? 1000%. Some of the things I’ve done in the past month I really didn’t think were possible. I was skeptical but I think a new era is upon us and everyone should be hustling to adapt.
My favorite analogy at the moment is that for awhile now we’ve been bowling and been responsible for knocking down the pins ourselves. In this new world we are no longer the bowlers, rather we are the builders of bumper rails that keep the new bowlers from landing in the gutter.
> However, it is important to ask if you want to stop investing in your own skills because of a speculative prediction made by an AI researcher or tech CEO.
I don't think these are exclusive. Almost a year ago, I wrote a blog post about this [0]. I spent the time since then both learning better software design and learning to vibe code. I've worked through Domain-Driven Design Distilled, Domain-Driven Design, Implementing Domain-Driven Design, Design Patterns, The Art of Agile Software Development, 2nd Edition, Clean Architecture, Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns, and Tidy First?. I'm a far better software engineer than I was in 2024. I've also vibe coded [1] a whole lot of software [2], some good and some bad [3].
You can choose to grow in both areas.
[0]: https://kerrick.blog/articles/2025/kerricks-wager/
[1]: As defined in Vibe Coding: Building Production-Grade Software With GenAI, Chat, Agents, and Beyond by Gene Kim and Steve Yegge, wherein you still take responsibility for the code you deliver.
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46702093
[3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46719500
I personally found out that knowing how to use ai coding assistants productively is a skill like any other and a) it requires a significant investment of time b) can be quite rewarding to learn just as any other skill c) might be useful now or in the future and d) doesn't negate the usefulness of any other skills acquired on the past nor diminishes the usefulness of learning new skills in the future
Agreed, my experience and code quality with claude code and agentic workflows has dramatically increased since investing in learning how to properly use these tools. Ralph Wiggum based approaches and HumanLayer's agents/commands (in their .claude/) have boosted my productivity the most. https://github.com/snwfdhmp/awesome-ralph https://github.com/humanlayer
On the using AI assistants I find that everything is moving so fast that I feel constantly like "I'm doing this wrong". Is the answer simply "dedicate time to experimenting? I keep hearing "spec driven design" or "Ralph" maybe I should learn those? Genuine thoughts and questions btw.
More specifically regarding spec-driven development:
There's a good reason that most successful examples of those tools like openspec are to-do apps etc. As soon as the project grows to 'relevant' size of complexity, maintaining specs is just as hard as whatever other methodology offers. Also from my brief attempts - similar to human based coding, we actually do quite well with incomplete specs. So do agents, but they'll shrug at all the implicit things much more than humans do. So you'll see more flip-flopped things you did not specify, and if you nail everything down hard, the specs get unwieldy - large and overly detailed.
Everybody feels like this, and I think nobody stays ahead of the curve for a prolonged time. There's just too many wrinkles.
But also, you don't have to upgrade every iteration. I think it's absolutely worthwhile to step off the hamster wheel every now and then, just work with you head down for a while and come back after a few weeks. One notices that even though the world didn't stop spinning, you didn't get the whiplash of every rotation.
I think find what works for you, and everything else is kind of noise.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white so long as it catches mice.
——
Ive also found that picking something and learning about it helps me with mental models for picking up other paradigms later, similar to how learning Java doesn’t actually prevent you from say picking up Python or Javascript
I'm doing a similar thing. Recently, I got $100 to spend on books. The first two books I got were A Philosophy of Software Design, and Designing Data-Intensive Applications, because I asked myself, out of all the technical and software engineering related books that I might get, given agentic coding works quite well now, what are the most high impact ones?
And it seemed pretty clear to me that they would have to do with the sort of evergreen, software engineering and architecture concepts that you still need a human to design and think through carefully today, because LLMs don't have the judgment and a high-level view for that, not the specific API surface area or syntax, etc., of particular frameworks, libraries, or languages, which LLMs, IDE completion, and online documentation mostly handle.
Especially since well-designed software systems, with deep and narrow module interface, maintainable and scalable architectures, well chosen underlying technologies, clear data flow, and so on, are all things that can vastly increase the effectiveness of an AI coding agent, because they mean that it needs less context to understand things, can reason more locally, etc.
To be clear, this is not about not understanding the paradigms, capabilities, or affordances of the tech stack you choose, either! The next books I plan to get are things like Modern Operating Systems, Data-Oriented Design, Communicating Sequential Processes, and The Go Programming Language, because low level concepts, too, are things you can direct an LLM to optimize, if you give it the algorithm, but which they won't do themselves very well, and are generally also evergreen and not subsumed in the "platform minutea" described above.
Likewise, stretching your brain with new paradigms — actor oriented, Smalltalk OOP, Haskell FP, Clojure FP, Lisp, etc — gives you new ways to conceptualize and express your algorithms and architectures, and to judge and refine the code your LLM produces, and ideas like BDD, PBT, lightweight formal methods (like model checking), etc, all provide direct tools for modeling your domain, specifying behavior, and testing it far better, which then allow you to use agentic coding tools with more safety or confidence (and a better feedback loop for them) — at the limit almost creating a way to program declaratively in executible specifications, and then convert those to code via LLM, and then test the latter against the former!
As someone with 20 years experience, DDD is a stupid idea, skip it and do yourself a favour.
You'll probably be forming some counter-arguments in your head.
Skip them, throw the DDD books in the bin, and do your co-workers a favour.
DDD is quite nice as a philosophy. Like concatenate state based on behavioral similarity and keep mutation and query function close, model data structures from domain concepts and not the inverse, pay attention to domain boundary (an entity may be read only in some domain and have fewer state transition than in another).
But it should be a philosophy, not a directive. There are always tradeoffs to be made, and DDD may be the one to be sacrificed in order to get things done.
Agreed. I find most design patterns end up as a mess eventually, at least when followed religiously. DDD being one of the big offenders. They all seem to converge on the same type of "over engineered spaghetti" that LOOKS well factored at a glance, but is incredibly hard to understand or debug in practice.
Of those 3 DDD books - which did you find the most valuable?
I was going to ask the same thing. I'm self taught but I've mainly gone the other way, more interested in learning about lower level things. Bang for buck I think I might have been better reading DDD type books.
That AI would be writing 90% of the code at Anthropic was not a "failed prediction". If we take Anthropic's word for it, now their agents are writing 100% of the code:
https://fortune.com/2026/01/29/100-percent-of-code-at-anthro...
Of course you can choose to believe that this is a lie and that Anthropic is hyping their own models, but it's impossible to deny the enormous revenue that the company is generating via the products they are now giving almost entirely to coding agents.
One thing I like to think about is: If these models were so powerful why would they ever sell access? They could just build endless products to sell, likely outcompeting anyone else who needs to employ humans. And if not building their own products they could be the highest value contractor ever.
If you had midas touch would you rent it out?
It's astonishing to me that real software developers have considered it a good idea to generate code... and not even look at the code.
I would have thought sanity checking the output to be the most elementary next step.
Speaking just for myself, AI has allowed me to start doing projects that seemed daunting at first, as it automates much of the tedious act of actually typing code from the keyboard, and keeps me at a higher level.
But yes, I usually constrain my plans to one function, or one feature. Too much and it goes haywire.
I think a side benefit is that I think more about the problem itself, rather than the mechanisms of coding.
Actually, I wonder how they measured the 'speed' of coding, maybe I missed it. But if developers can spend more time thinking about the larger problems, that may be a cause of the slowdown. I guess it remains to be seen if the code quality or feature set improves.
Just because you’re a good programmer / software engineer doesn’t mean you’re a good architect, or a good UI designer, or a good product manager. Yet in my experience, using LLMs to successfully produce software really works those architect, designer, and manager muscles, and thus requires them to be strong.
I really disagree with this. I don’t think you can be a good software engineer without being a good product manager and a good architect.
I see AI coding as something like project management. You could delegate all of the tasks to an LLM, or you could assign some to yourself.
If you keep some for yourself, there’s a possibility that you might not churn out as much code as quickly as someone delegating all programming to AI. But maybe shipping 45,000 lines a day instead of 50,000 isn’t that bad.
You need to understand the frustration behind these kinds of posts.
The people on the start of the curve are the ones who swear against LLMs for engineering, and are the loudest in the comments.
The people on the end of the curve are the ones who spam about only vibing, not looking at code and are attempting to build this new expectation for the new interaction layer for software to be LLM exclusively. These ones are the loudest on posts/blogs.
The ones in the middle are people who accept using LLMs as a tool, and like with all tools they exercise restraint and caution. Because waiting 5 to 10 seconds each time for an LLM to change the color of your font, and getting it wrong is slower than just changing it yourself. You might as well just go in and do these tiny adjustments yourself.
It's the engineers at both ends that have made me lose my will to live.
The point about vibe coding eroding fundamentals resonates. I've noticed that when I lean too heavily on LLM-generated code, I stop thinking about edge cases and error handling — the model optimizes for the happy path and so do I. The real skill shift isn't coding vs not coding, it's learning to be a better reviewer and architect of code you didn't write yourself.
Fascinating - I find the opposite is true. I think of edge cases more and direct the exploration of them. I’ve found my 35 years experience tells me where the gaps will be and I’m usually right. I’ve been able to build much more complex software than before not because I didn’t know how but because as one person I couldn’t possibly do it. The process isn’t any easier just faster.
I’ve found also AI assisted stuff is remarkable for algorithmically complex things to implement.
However one thing I definitely identify with is the trouble sleeping. I am finally able to do a plethora of things I couldn’t do before due to the limits of one man typing. But I don’t build tools I don’t need, I have too little time and too many needs.
> when I lean too heavily on LLM-generated code, I stop thinking about edge cases and error handling
I have the exact same experience... if you don't use it, you'll lose it
> A study from METR found that when developers used AI tools, they estimated that they were working 20% faster, yet in reality they worked 19% slower. That is nearly a 40% difference between perceived and actual times!
It’s not. It’s either 33% slower than perceived or perception overestimates speed by 50%. I don’t know how to trust the author if stuff like this is wrong.
I get caught up personally in this math as well. Is a charitable interpretation of the throwaway line that they were off by that many “percentage points”?
Can you elaborate? This seems like a simple mistake if they are incorrect, I'm not sure where 33% or 50% come from here.
Their math is 120%-80%=40% while the correct math is (80-120)/120=-33% or (120-80)/80=+50%
It’s more obvious if you take more extreme numbers, say: they estimated to take 99% less time with AI, but it took 99% more time - the difference is not 198%, but 19900%. Suddenly you’re off by two orders of magnitude.
Isn't the study a year old by now? Things have evolved very quickly in the last few months.
The addiction aspect of this is real. I was skeptical at first, but this past week I built three apps and experienced issues with stepping away or getting enough sleep. Eventually my discipline kicked in to make this a more healthy habit, but I was surprised by how compelling it is to turn ideas into working prototypes instantly. Ironically, the rate limits on my Claude and Codex subscriptions helped me to pace myself.
Isn't struggling to get enough sleep or shower enough and so on because you're so involved with the process of, you know, programming, especially interactive, exploratory programming with an immediate feedback loop, kind of a known phenomenon for programmers since essentially the dawn of interactive computing?
i used to lose hours each day to typos, linting issues, bracket-instead-of-curly-bracket, 'was it the first parameter or the second parameter', looking up accumulator/anonymous function callback syntax AGAIN...
idk what ya'll are doing with AI, and i dont really care. i can finally - fiiinally - stay focused on the problem im trying to solve for more than 5 minutes.
idk what you’re doing but proper IDE was doing that for me for past 15 years or more.
Like I don’t remember syntax or linting or typos being a problem since I was in high school doing Turbo Pascal or Visual Basic.
tl;dr - author cites a study from early 2025 which measured developer speed of “experienced open source developers” to be ~20% slower when supported by AI, while they’ve estimated to be ~20% faster.
Note: the study used sonnet-3.5 and sonnet-3.7; there weren’t any agents, deep research or similar tools available. I’d like to see this study done again with:
1. juniors ans mid-level engineers
2. opus-4.6 high and codex-5.2 xhigh
3. Tasks that require upfront research
4. Tasks that require stakeholder communication, which can be facilitated by AI
Ive come to the realization after maxing the x20 plan that I have to set clear priorities.
Fortunately, I've retired so I'm going focus on flooding the zone with my crazy ideas made manifest in books.
"they don’t produce useful layers of abstraction nor meaningful modularization. They don’t value conciseness or improving organization in a large code base. We have automated coding, but not software engineering"
Which frankly describes pretty much all real world commercial software projects I've been on, too.
Software engineering hasn't happened yet. Agents produce big balls of mud because we do, too.
which is why the most famous book in the world of software development pointed out that the long term success of a software project is not defined by man hours or lines of code written but by documentation, clear interfaces and the capacity to manage the complexity of a project.
Maybe they need to start handing out copies of the mythical man month again because people seem to be oblivious to insights we already had a few decades ago