The corollary of this is that if you are a local you should do some more touristy things.
I don't mean to go to a tourist trap and get scammed, but just enjoy your city a little more and do some things that usually only tourists do.
For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I? It's for tourists. Except it's probably quite fascinating, especially for a local.
I've been exploring related feelings in the related "For me, this is just a Tuesday" space. I had started to feel like a food tour group was stalking me personally. My usual Tuesday lunch. My usual Friday dinner. So forth. The first "gut feeling" was irritation. It's a lot of people showing up in a small space with random lectures distracting from whatever I was doing while eating (such as often reading a book).
It took a couple weeks, but I realized that I was the spoiled one and the other side of "For me this is a Tuesday" should be "I'm glad my local businesses are interesting to tours" and "It's easy to forget how impressed I might be with this lunch if I was visiting some other town, isn't it great it can be my 'usual Tuesday'?"
I started listening to some of the lectures. I could easily mock some of them and/or clarify/edit/fix mistakes in them, but also they can still be an interesting bit of perspective, including the way that tourists respond to them. It's fun to have that tourist perspective of the local area.
It's also a fun reminder to do and try more of the tourist things locally. When your "usual Tuesday" is someone else's exciting and desired vacation experience, what else are you seeing with the somewhat dulled eyes of being a local but would greatly enjoy if you thought like a visitor to your own city?
Tower of London is not a touristy thing its a culture thing.
I know quite a lot of all the cities i lived in. I have been a good tourguide to friends and family because you just learn stuff about your city.
I will not go to that one ferris wheel because some company build it, i saw them building it, its in a location which is weird, and why would i go on a ferris wheel in my city?
But everything else? The main castle, yes! The residence, english garden, white rose, german museum, Shirker's Alley, old michael, etc. yes! Have been plenty of times.
Where you can discover places near you and connect to their history, I have also added some check-in mechanics and quiz to gaming the experience and for to actually go see the place in person.
I’m routinely surprised by native San Franciscans who’ve never been to Alcatraz, seen Pier 39, or gone whale watching. Yes, they’re touristy things to do. They’re also very interesting and lots of fun!
Agreed! I routinely cycle around the city and one of my favorite loops is along the Embarcadero and up through Pier 39 and Fisherman’s Wharf.
We live in a beautiful city that people come from all over to see and there are good reasons for that. I’ll also offer to take pictures of families taking their photos with the sea lions (which I also always stop to watch) and chat them up a bit. Fun times.
I finally went to Alcatraz after years where I've either lived in SF or visited for work. It was worth spending some time out there! Great views as well.
I've lived in London, various places within the M25, for about 40 years now and still walk around looking up and enjoying exploring both new and old places. We do the Hidden City treasure hunts which is a great way of finding new spots.
Tower of London is good, there is so much history in there and a number of exhibitions well worth seeing.
I've done most of the "tourist traps"[1] and really enjoyed them. The London Eye gives you great views, especially at sunset; The Shard (cocktail bar, not done the viewing platform) is a bit expensive and style over substance but still worth doing once; Buckingham Palace is a world class historical living building; The South Bank has a lot going on and also gives great views of London; The Royal Albert Hall is a stunning concert venue; most of the big museums are free.
The one place I've not done as it really doesn't appeal to me is Madame Tussauds.
[1] Compared to other cites apart from the pedal rickshaws and the find-the-lady on Westminster bridge I don't think London is inundated with rip-off tourist traps like many other cities appear to be.
I live in the DC area and it is kind of sad that a lot of people here haven't been to the various Smithsonian museums (which are free) here, or haven't been since they were children.
As a fellow Londoner I can confirm it's worth visiting and the crown jewels are also nicely presented. Don't be fooled into queueing for the bloody tower torture chamber, anything you can see seemed to be a Victorian fantasy.
They have been fracking oil like 15 minutes walk from my previous house since 1986… I just found out after seeing a curious sign on a fence around a pretty secluded terrain when taking a stroll. It only became public knowledge a year or so ago when the government announced publicly that they would continue operations for another x years. Protests are still ongoing. Take more local strolls!
100%. I've lived in Paris well over a year and finally walked up on the Eiffel Tower and I enjoyed it. But of course not in July or August! But being local means you can go on an unexpectedly sunny March weekend.
I lived in Manhattan for a decade and never went to see the Statue of Liberty. And it’s not like I wasn’t doing lots of things and I would go out three or four times a week and I’ve been to all sorts of places in NYC. Just never been to the Statue of Liberty.
It's mostly paid-for touristy things that are sneered at, in my experience. No-one's going to look askance if you spend a day in the BM, V&A, or National Gallery even though they're listed in every guide book and are always rammed with tourists.
Madame Tussauds, The London Dungeon, The Clink, The Sherlock Holmes Museum, though? Ugh.
The ToL isn't entirely contrived like those, but is paid-for so you can see why people might feel awkward about it. As others have noted, though, Tower Hamlets residents get in for £1 which makes it pretty much acceptable - especially if you go on a rainy Tuesday in February when queues are at their shortest...
I am Swiss and like most 30-40yo from my generation, Hiking in the splendid nature, lakes and mountains, visiting touristy places and the overall scenery was something uncool, for old people. We were forced to do that in school. Nobody in their right mind would do it. :)
I then moved abroad to Bangkok, working an office job. Although BKK is great for consumerism and convenience, especially with cheap labor available for almost anything, you can get quite lazy. The bad traffic, non-pedestrian friendly (non existent) city planning and little nature left also makes it a bit cumbersome to find nature nearby. This made me appreciate nature, hiking and nice scenery. (Of course Thailand has lots of beautiful nature and scenery, but not so much of an active outdoor scene)
Coming back to Switzerland after 6 years, I became the biggest tourist, going hiking every weekend, spending time at our tourist destinations, but also all the second tier ("unseen") places only locals know. I tried so much stuff that in the past I thought is tourist stuff, and most of it is simply great.
I also became much more understanding, open and helpful to expats, foreigners and tourists in my country.
The title is a non sequitur from the argument. The point is not to ask for a "bring a non-local to work day" where you tag along to a rando doing their normal routine.
The thing that locals do know a lot of the time, is the spots that are actually great but not hyped up by influencers/social media, the cool spots that are often good by virtue of not being well known, etc. And no one is arguing that the locals know all the best cultural attractions, the point of asking locals for advice is to understand what they see in their own city.
This is where platforms like Couchers.org or whatever come up, where you want to actually understand the locals, more than just see the hyped up touristy stuff (which often can also be phenomenal!).
The advice isn't to literally live a life in the day of a local, it's to ask the locals what the interesting things to do are. Nobody is actually suggesting that you go hang out at an office for 8 hours, stop by an affordable grocery store and then watch Netflix.
E.G. People in Seattle will not tell you to go to the space needle or to Pike Place Market (at best you might hear that you should go at least once). They will tell you to ride a bike from Lake Union to the Locks on a sunny day, and you will have more fun and see more than fighting the crowds at Pike Place.
There is a reason why touristic spots are touristic spots, even before the rise of social media and influencers. The reason is that they are usually the nicest spot in that zone.
Same reason why rich people buy (and inflate its value) land for holidays homes in certain places and not others. Because those are nicer places, where the landscape is beautiful.
The point is that the locals tend to think that spots which are actually generic and uninteresting are great because the mediocre imported cuisine they serve is different from the local food or their friend works there, and that spots full of influencers which are actually great aren't that interesting because they'd personally never consider taking a bus to the centre to queue up with tourists to enjoy a rooftop with a view when they can have coffee with their friends in their own suburb at a chain they've got a loyalty card for. Sometimes seeing what banal stuff people think is amazing and what beautiful stuff they take for granted is educational in its own right, but it's not necessarily a better way to plan a holiday than a guidebook.
You say that, but I’ve more than a few times found myself scratching my head when a local person has not known basics about where they live - everything from not knowing that there’s a supermarket one block over, to having never heard of the culture whose ruins litter their city.
I think the worst local advice I ever had sent me on a 3000km detour and got me interrogated by the FSB - basically it was “oh don’t go south of the Aral Sea, the road is terrible, you will die” - turns out that the road north of the sea had already been demolished so a new one could be built, and the one south had already been completely rebuilt.
Honestly, most locals don’t know shit about where they live.
The reason people use "When in Rome..." or "do as the locals do" is because that's how you get an accurate taste of what life in <place> is like. If you don't want to experience a glimpse of life in Paris, then sure go eat at a tourist trap. The quote below from TFA is an inadvertent own goal, I think:
>But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
Perhaps TFAuthor hails from a place that isn't interesting enough for tourists to visit. Lots of small towns across the USA and Canada don't offer any compelling reason to visit unless you have relatives there.
There's a reason tourists flock to New York City and not to Schenectady.
>The reason people use "When in Rome..." or "do as the locals do" is because that's how you get an accurate taste of what life in <place> is like.
>There's a reason tourists flock to New York City and not to Schenectady.
Ah, yes. The masses of tourists flocking to NYC so they can experience the grind of working your ass off, every entity you interact with trying to get one over on you hoping that you'll have a) banked enough to day cash out to <shuffles cards> Hazleton Pennsylvania b) spend so many years in one apartment you're paying far below market rate.
One phenomenon I noticed is that unpaid things (even if they're world class museums) often get left in the shadow of others that sell tickets - these get packaged in "city pass" cards, etc. and get more exposure from their selling.
I live in a tourist town (population 45k, with 2M visitors this past season). It's truly lovely. Our museums kick ass, the food and cocktails punch above their weight, and there are countless activities in the off season. Sure, I can get a cheaper burger or pay less rent just a few miles down the road, but instead I stay and benefit from tourists pushing the quality upwards. I often see folks focusing on the low-effort schlock shop, damning all tourists, before heading to one of the 8 local coffee shops (who could never survive on locals alone). The best thing a local can do is to openly give recommendations, helping to hold competition and quality to a high standard.
That could well be my town. Much of what you say is true. The main street, which was hard hit from a shopping center taking all business away from the city centre, has two nice (non chain) coffee places. There's also a (non chain) Italian place which is excellent.
But there's also, I think about 5 pure tourist tat shops. One with a very prominent AI generated moose. Those are what make money. They extract the value that the actually good places create, and in return they drive up rent for the good places.
One of the reasons the shopping center did so well in the first place, was that they could charge lower rents for shops which bring more value to the center than they capture themselves (such as cafes) and higher rents to shops which make money but whose social contribution is low or negative (like betting shops or tourist tat shops).
It is obvious that "do what the locals do" should not be taken literally, because locals are likely working most of the day. So the authors actual advice seems to be "avoid what the locals do, when they don't want to do anything". Everyone else likely interprets it as "do what the locals do, when they want to have fun" which is good advice.
My daily routines are of no interest to tourist. They are probably similar to their own routines at home anyway. When I got out on the weekends it can get wild though and I'd wager it's exactly what many tourists are looking for.
Yeah, I felt this was obvious as well. I like to "do what the locals do" when I travel, but by that I don't mean work during the weekdays of my vacation or spring clean an apartment. And if I say "do what the locals do" no one else would think I mean that I worked or did house chores.
One of my favorite trips was a business trip to Barcelona. Worked during the day in a unique office with folks I didn’t get to work in person a lot, toured an 800 year old church I passed waking back to the hotel.
Im sure im an outlier but one of my favorite things to do is literally “do what the locals do”
I live in a tourist town. 3000 residents, 4 million visitors each year. And I'm just fine with the tourists not going to the places I go - we tend to like the quieter, more affordable places vs. the big fancy price-gouging places. But assuming that us "locals" just sit at home and do nothing is such an unfair and inaccurate assessment. Why would I want to live in a town as crazy as this if I did nothing here?
I enjoy having a vast variety of restaurants and activities that I otherwise would not have in a small town in the Midwest. The roads are well maintained, we have more parks than we otherwise would, there are trails, rivers, and tons of activities. We don't spend all our time partaking of the tourist activities, but we abso-freaking-lutely spend some time enjoying what the town has to offer.
> They might grab some mediocre Mexican food on the outskirts of Helsinki because they already eat Finnish food at home and want something different. They might hang out with some friends at the Kaivopuisto park. Maybe they would go on a hike? What I’m getting at here is that, even in the best case, the locals are usually not having very exciting (or very ‘authentic’) days.
Unironically this is the experience I’m often looking for in another country. I want touristy days, but I also want to see their supermarkets. Their stores. Walk through a local park. Sit in a coffee shop and read a book. One of my favorite things to do is try foreign food in another country, because Chinese and Japanese and Mexican food is different as it’s adapted to different counties tastes.
To paraphrase the philosopher Vincent Vega, it’s the little differences.
I used to live in Bologna, Italy and the variety of "foreign" restaurants there is amazing.
Quotation marks because there's always a (not exactly obvious) Italian twist to these places.
The quirkiest example of this would be a small chain of restaurants named "America Graffiti" (yeah). Overall theme is a 60s diner. It's not present anymore in Bologna, but there are several in neighbouring towns.
The locals are living their lives on an organic cadence. They're not maximizing entertainment value or whatever. They will certainly know entertaining things to do, but it's literally not their job to entertain tourists. Maybe seeking out a Disneyland like experience in someone else's home is the problem? Bourdain, Rick Steves, et al. are fun to watch, but I can't help but feel they've actually made the world a worse place by romanticizing tourism. There are many sayings about how travel reduces prejudice... but if you actually look at it at scale, it's almost always a global negative.
While the folks like Bourdain did romanticize tourism, and TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers, they did at least project the proper attitude of embracing the differences in other cultures when they traveled to places.
The current issues with tourism are significantly more to do with "influencers" and social media. Many places are overrun by people that are just there to get their photos and have zero interest in engaging with the culture or treating locals with respect.
Its shocking how different some places have gotten due to "influencers". Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago. It struck me when walking around a couple places that there are photos I took during my first trip that would simply be impossible to get today because of the number of people in the way.
> Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago.
Usually explained by a different time of week/year/month. If you stay in a place for a while you get a sense of patterns. Often there's waves of tourists depending on neighboring country holidays and if you're a local you learn to avoid popular landmarks during those times.
> TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers
You make it sound like that's the problem and not increasing rent. If one day your place looks much more profitable everyone involved will try to get a piece.
I was once on the bus (in my own home town) with someone from Dublin (which I was visiting in a week back then), he recommended I not go to Temple Bar: "It's just for tourists". So where should I go? "There are some nice bars in ${some District}".
Well I passed though said district and saw some pretty drab houses and some bars with TVs (not my thing). Went to Temple Bar: It was vivid, with live music and many cheerful people on the street.
My best travel advice (for urban areas) is simple: get lost. If you don't know exactly where you are or what's around the corner, you've got to take it as it comes, and that makes it all the more interesting. No FOMO or opportunity cost struggles, just what's in front of you right now.
This is both easier and harder with smartphones and GPS. Harder because, well, you know exactly where you are and have to actively ignore the phone. Easier because when you're ready to be done, you know exactly where you are!
As someone who's traveled quite a bit, I love doing this but I should also warn everyone to make sure they're in a place where it's safe to do so. While most tourist destinations are mostly fine, you don't want to end up in a random shady neighborhood in certain cities - even touristy ones (Barcelona, Paris, etc). It doesn't matter that 20 years ago you did it and it was fine, things have changed.
I did that once about twenty years ago. I was in Seoul for a few days for work, and I had the last day free before my plane out in the evening. Without checking a map or guidebook, I got on the subway, rode a few stops, went up to street level, and wandered around; I repeated this four or five times. Other than one nondescript office district, every area I emerged in was interesting: a wholesale textile market, an upscale residential neighborhood, a lively commercial district. Though I don’t know the names of the places I visited, I still remember them all these years later.
I can say I've had good and bad - I've wondered through cities with no direction and found -- nothing, two that come to mind are Paris and Barcelona. I'm sure there is interesting stuff to be found here and there but mostly, outside of the main attractions, I found the rest not much more interesting than American suburbia. Yes, I'm glad I saw it to basically see that "life is life". There's the interesting coast, or the restaurant row that's already on the tourist map, then there's the living areas where every block or two there's a convenience store, another non-descript cafe, a hair salon, etc... Maybe once in a while something sticks out but mostly not.
To be clear, I found both cities amazing. But, the "this city is amazing" parts are the parts listed as must visit. The "get lost parts" less so, with a few exceptions.
I've had more luck doing things further down the list. On 3rd or 4th visit, I'm not doing the top 10 most popular things. I'm down on 40th or 50th or 100th.
I liked walking around Paris and did found minor interesting things there: statues, parks, that sort of thing. Paris looked good outside of main tourist attraction to me.
My wife and I took a walk along one of the Paris canals on a nice early spring day. You are very right that there wasn't much exciting to see once we got out of the touristy areas but locals were out enjoying the day and it was nice to see how the more average Parisian lives rather than only seeing the attractions and neighborhoods occupied by the 7 zeroes and up class.
This is one of the only sensible comments in this entire thread. Just go wander, talk to and observe people, etc... I've traveled extensively and all of my best experiences are from this sort of thing.
As a local, one of the funnest things to do is to host out-of-town guests and to just do the touristy things in combination with local knowledge. Bus tours, museums, food, etc. Do it all. For me, it's stuff I'd probably never do unless pressed to provide entertainment for guests I care about.
So, do the local thing with tourists and retain a focus on a combination of showing off the best elements of being a local; with the wide-eyed enthusiasm of the tourist. As a blow-in to NY, I'd like others to appreciate it too.
Do what the tourists do, but with the locals. Do what the locals do, but with the tourists.
I work in tourism in Japan and so many tourists ask me what are some good places to eat. It’s such an annoying question because the honest answer is I eat what the locals eat, which is to say the most authentic Japanese cuisine is what you find in a Japanese supermarket. That’s what the people of Japan are actually eating. Of course that’s not really what the question is though, but my point is I’m not a good person to ask because I just eat normal stuff.
As a fellow resident of Japan, I find this sorta question very funny.
People naturally romanticize food of foreign cultures, but I can't help but giggle at the crazy hype given to Japanese food in particular. Especially considering how 'bland' the food is (at least, how bland it is to the American sensibility).
These days, I direct touristing friends towards foreigner-friendly restaurants that promise some sort of food "experience" (at the prices you'd expect)...while I mosey over to the nearest salaryman friendly hole-in-the-wall for some plain zaru soba or udon. One part because I'm eternally broke, and another because I genuinely like it more than the ungodly katsu-don concoctions larger than the standard birth weight.
Not that there isn't interesting 名物 depending on the region (although naturally the 名物 of Tokyo might as well be Taco Bell), but I've always found my friends to be disappointed by "real" Japanese food...even from the Yatai of my local Fukuoka (which is pretty darn good, as far as I'm concerned!) Let alone from places like rural Tohoku (the village a friend resided in had a specialty of whole-salamander tempura...bluegh).
My own experience has been that the average quality, and especially the like floor of the quality of food here in Japan is pretty high compared to Australia. What you get compared to what you pay for is especially high in Japan’s favour.
But perhaps you’re right that the hype is not deserved, if you’re coming here expecting a heavenly experience then you’re probably going to be disappointed purely because of unrealistic expectations. I would say tourists from wealthy western countries should expect decent food for a great price. Touristic places might have higher prices though.
> It’s such an annoying question because the honest answer is I eat what the locals eat, which is to say the most authentic Japanese cuisine is what you find in a Japanese supermarket. That’s what the people of Japan are actually eating.
Well, that's only true if you also observe what Japanese customers are buying and do your best to mimic their habits.
You could go into any Italian supermarket and fill your cart with weißwurst, avocados, and Camembert cheese - and they're all right there in the meat, fruit, and dairy areas respectively, not in an 'ethnic' corner - but it would be hardly a good representation of what the locals typically eat.
Your answer is the answer I want. Why do you presume it's not valuable to say, "There's a good grocery store over there. I like X brand"?
Maybe I want to know a decent place I can get a cheap hot meal too, but I'm not interested in fancy meals or nice restaurants. I want the workaday egg salad from the tiny deli in New York that costs 4.99 and comes with a pickle. I want the simple pho that's the only thing on the menu. I want the tamales sold from a cooler in the Home Depot parking lot.
I wish there was a better way to signal that's what i want to find than, "Whats a good place to eat?"
I see what you mean, the thing about food in Japan though is that the minimum quality is pretty high. So I can’t really recommend a specific grocery store, all of the major ones have decent quality ready to eat food that just needs to be microwaved. (They usually have a microwave in the front of the store). Convince stores as well.
I’m originally from Australia and so that’s my point of comparison, a convenience store karage bento here in Japan is similar in quality to a Japanese restaurant chain in Australia, but the price is like 1/3rd.
As for actual restaurants, I think the mistake tourists make is trying to find the best ramen or whatever, but the best isn’t going to be that much better than the average joint catering to locals. So in other words, spend less time thinking about where to go and just explore and pick a random place that you like the vibe of, that’s what I do and I’ve never been disappointed here.
I don’t really have time to say all that to every tourists that asks though lol.
Also I’m literally writing this from a random ramen place I walked into, and it was delicious!
I think this author misunderstands the intent of the expression "do what the locals do". It does not mean "do what an arbitrary or random local does" or even "do what the median local does".
It implies seeking the experiences and places that are popular with the locals and not popular with the tourists. It means finding a killer teriyaki or pho place in Seattle and avoiding the space needle, even if an average Seattle resident goes to neither type of place every day.
It means avoiding Times Square and instead wandering the other streets of Manhattan.
The locals do know. Maybe each individual local only visits once a month, but the aggregate knowledge of the locals knows. Great hole in the wall places are known by locals.
We've probably been to NYC ten times at this point. We stay out of Midtown except if we are going to a Broadway show. The subway can get you quite a ways. Head out to the Cloisters instead of the main Met museum. Be sure to walk around the rest of the park. It's a completely different version of New York. Not better, not worse, but completely new if you've only ever done Times Square and other popular spots. We took a subway and bus out to the Botanical Garden. Another gem that gets few out of town visitors but gives locals discounted access and they use it.
Heck, just walking around Harlem will give you an amazing day with 20% or less of the tourists.
I remember traveling 1000km for work. On the radio I heard of trips to where I lived. They were all prizes for some competition. I realized that my home was someone else's destination and my current place was where people from home's had chosen as a destination.
The grass is sometimes truly greener.
When I returned I looked at my home with the eyes of a tourist and went everywhere I could.
I have since traveled elsewhere. Some places are much better not to return to or even remain in.
I spent my childhood in a place that was a destination for others but later in life moved to a city. When the company i work at decided to have a trip there I was like eh whaterevr. its just some boring mountains and waterfalls but went anyway. Seeing my coworkers be really enjoying that was really an experience in itself.
There was one place i liked to go, it was kind of chill bar in a huge palazzo styled room. Like ballroom/theatre, with chill seats and sometimes small events. The place was huge and there was very little people. It got into tourist guides and is packed to the tits, with 4 western european teenagers getting out of bathroom stall at the same time... havent been there in years. So yeah. Locals used to but dont anymore :D
> I’m skeptical of the term tourist trap (it’s mostly used as a term to place yourself as higher status/taste than other people, and is often used out of insecurity)
One thing I've read years ago about tourist traps is that one shouldn't be actively trying to avoid them, especially if they come from a country with higher purchasing power.
Some of these "tourist trap" activities are locals trying to make an honest living doing what they can. It should be fine to take a tuk tuk, or to buy paintings and souvenirs from people off the street.
Everyone should avoid getting ripped off, but what's 0.1% of a month's wages to a tourist could pay for an entire day's meals for a local.
I don't think people should get ripped off just because they can afford it.
If you visit Sweden, don't buy ice cream in the historic area of Stockholm ("gamla stan").
As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home". But you are not helping a starving ice cream labourer with your purchase, you are simply being taken for a ride. Walk a couple of blocks more and check the signs, and you can buy it at half price from a respectable establishment instead. Most likely the ice cream will be better at the next place as well.
I don't think it's "ripping off" tourists to ask them to pay a price they can easily afford rather than the usual local price, ridiculously low for a tourist.
I cringe when I hear Europeans proud that they haggled to death on an African market to lower the price from "cheap" to "dirt cheap". Dude, that's pocket change for you, can't you help the local economy a bit, and help the guy feed his family?
> As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home".
Is this a joke? $10 for a single scoop of ice cream in the US is a lot of money and also the US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. You can barely feed yourself with the US minimum wage and you definitely can't pay for shelter or healthcare or anything else you would need to survive here, but that's a story for another time.
The current US minimum wage is so way below market wages in most places to be meaningless, though. I'm sure McDonald's would like to hire people at $7.25/hr (or better yet have robots that they don't have to pay after acquiring). But currently, they have to advertise that their starting salary for workers near me is $14/hr because if they don't they won't get anyone. Politicians like to talk about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever as if that would suddenly give working class people a huge raise, but it would simply reflect the existing reality.
By my definition "tourist traps" are both low quality and high price... and also fairly easy to avoid. If you can walk three blocks away from a major attraction and find restaurants that are both cheaper and better, then the other ones are tourist traps. If they're decent quality but merely expensive due to their location, then they're charging for convenience and there's nothing much wrong with that.
I think the writer of this misunderstands "tourist trap."
Tourist traps, at least as I see it, are places or activities that are more expensive than they should be.
For example, a tourist trap in Tokyo is going to the top of SkyTree. It's not something locals can really reasonably afford doing more than once, because it's really expensive. The price is such that basically only tourists would do it.
Tourist trap as i see it is restaurant that will give you below average local food, for 3 times the price a good local food should cost, just because it is in the middle of the tourist area. Or tacky bars for tourists with different "attractions" to sell you watered down alcohol for high prices. For me, this is much worse than one time entrance to attraction. Because tourists thinks that this is the local culture.
My little related insight, is that maps are extremely lossy. Even satellite maps. Life on the ground, is full of detail.
When I travelled Japan specifically, maps didn't tell you much at all. It might look like a residential deadzone from high up, but be bustling with cool stuff to do when you walk through.
For a friend's birthday we actually did a hiking tour through the city we grew up in, and realized we knew very little about the city we grew up in.
That should be enough motivation to start where you're already standing. Build up from there. Figure out if you want to see more mountains, more ocean, whatever. It's a great eye-opener.
I try to add some randomness to my travels. Just pick a few random places on a map, research them for a few minutes, and if there is anything remotely interesting there, just go there. If you discover something more interesting on the way and never reach your destination, then you definitively succeeded.
Better advice isn't 'do what the locals do' or 'avoid what the locals do'. It's to actually talk to people, both locals and other travelers, instead of treating either group as a script to copy from a distance. Have a beer, ask questions, hang out, and see what people are really into.
Historically, that's what the locals did. This is 'do what the locals do' always referred to. Other comments call out entities like Bourdain who pushed 'do what the locals do' into popularization, but even he spent his time talking to the locals. That was his whole schtick.
It may be fair to say that in the modern age locals no longer talk to each other. Perhaps that is the source of disconnect we're now seeing?
I also live in Sydney, and the first question to ask is always "do you have a car?" (and then "how long you here for?")? A car makes it much easier to visit various spots (e.g. the national parks, Mount Annan (https://maps.app.goo.gl/WJRcJY8RHtRLV7Tm9) IMHO is a better botanic garden than Royal (the one in the city) because it focuses on native plants, Blue Mountains/Hawkesbury, the various zoos which are further out), whereas if you don't have a car the city has enough things close by to do. Powerhouse is great (the real one, not the one which is going to flood), Australia museum is great, if you can go on a ghost tour for the Rocks and the QStation. There's lots of other minor museums throughout the city, esp. the Rocks.
Locals trend conservative, always giving the advice "don't do that, you'll definitely die" because they remember one bad incident 10 or 20 years ago and never clock how circumstances have changed. My favorite is the time I was warned over and over by several different people about not going somewhere because I would surely be killed by foreigners or wolves. Dude, what? If there was a major problem with one, it would scare off the other. Are they working together?? lol
Definitely agree in some cases. eg where I live ( Auckland, New Zealand ) plenty of people read stories in the local paper or facebook that highlight every single incident in the Central city. So they are scared to go there.
Reality is thousands of white-collar workers (including me), normal locals and many tourists of all ages. Small number of homeless. But no more dangerous than any other city (and a lot safer during the day and early evening )
well that's not always the case - I live in place where you can jog with earphones at 2AM and only worry about drunk drivers (very rare)
as a local, there was a lot of places that are "visible to foreigners but invisible to locals" -- cafes/view spots/hipster-places that only advertises to foreigners (they didn't even have signboards)
I learnt about those places when some foreign friends took me there
At the beginning, absolutely. At some point though if it keeps working.. a traveler that takes many risks might be better at evaluating them than a random person they could consult. And/or part of getting there is learning to evaluate which random persons to listen to ;)
> P.S. if you are a local, you can do all of this too.
Last year, after spending a bunch of money putting in a fence, and having a puppy that didn't travel well, we decided that we were just going to take a week off and be tourists at home. We visited the museums we've driven by daily for eight years, and had a blast.
And, living in a touristy area, I want to point out that "do what the locals do" is excellent advice. I'll tell you all about where to get great food, great hikes, and not-too-crowded beaches. (Except the residents-only beach. We reserve that for us.)
That would be lovely but seems people really really want to be in the same places I am.
This year just called defeat and I'm moving out to the countryside, hopefully. My city had almost no tourist three years ago and now I had to shout twice to a tourist guide for using a very loud speaker in the very street I live in.
Just today I saw a 1 start review in a place I really like, by a german lady that was baffled waiters didn't even try to speak english to her.
It's just impossible to fight this. Guess we'll have to make our nice place elsewhere until tourists find out.
This article kind of misses the point - of course everyone’s average day is … average. But locals don’t spend all of their days like this, sometimes (once a week/month/year) they would do something fun, or they want to.
You asking them for advice or for them to show you around might push them to do something fun themselves, which they haven’t done in a while. But they have a lot more local context about what _might_ be good to explore or not.
They also know people - they themselves might have average days, but everyone knows that fun person that is the social glue that does all the fun stuff they can direct you - 7 degrees of separation and all that.
And lastly sure - treat the locals ideas with a grain of salt - I never do _exactly_ what the locals tell me, but it is another data point to make your own plans.
When I travel I like to make huge holes in my plans - uncharted time for me to fill in when I’m at location - from local sources or just doing the research then and there. It has always been more natural and interesting to do the sight seeing planing at location, so you can adjust and correct anyway. I guess have adopted the startup mentality of start small and iterate even for my travel experiences :)
I'd take you mushroom hunting (but really just exploring and running around in the forest this time of year), maybe pick up a trout on the way home to grill. That's a few days a week for me (the trout leas though).
As for touristy things here in Zurich - it's not really a tourist city. When we have guests from overseas we do have a set of activities to bring them on. When I've offered to bring them in the forest to find mushrooms/berries/etc they're usually not so interested.
I have been a tourist in Seattle for 15 years. I kayak the lakes, go to the popular restaurants, run the scenic routes, drive through winding roads to avoid traffic, do the basic hikes near town, spend evenings at the locks, joined the sailing club, take the rideshare scooters, karaoke at the passé locations, get groceries at pike place, see the tulips, get coffee at monorail espresso.
This advice is so unnecessary to the point that it sounds weird. I lived in a touristy place, and trust me, as a tourist you won't be doing what locals do by default. No special decision, no efforts needed at all.
That's what I did on my last vacation, and it was lovely.
Except that I was in a cabin, on an island, in a foreign country. And the reason I was absolutely undistracted from my book, is that I'd turned my phone off before crossing the border. And I left it off, all week.
The isolation and quiet surroundings made the "week off" truly off. Nobody could reach me if they tried. Whatever calamity befell my boss, he'd just have to wait.
That's so much better than I'd normally do at home on a week off, and it was 100% worth the travel to achieve it.
My favorite vacations have been the ones where we've planned or been forced into a day of downtime amidst multiple days of go-go see the sights. I hope to never again be a seven countries in six days type of traveler.
We just spent 14 days in Mexico City. We'd been before, so got to visit some 2nd and 3rd tier sights and also just spent a few days vibing in the neighborhood. Meals for two were anywhere from $5 to $600 and almost all of them were excellent.
I would quite like for more of the cafes and restaurants near my home to be other peoples' Disneyland, to some extent, since this would provide a lot of jobs in the area and help the owners.
It can be a double edged sword. A restaurant near me got written up in the NYTimes and a few other "foodie" publications. What used to be a plan a head a few weeks reservation turned into the place selling out the month in less than 10 minutes.
The owner, recognizing that eventually the hype would die down and locals are his lifeblood, had to come up with all kinds of creative ways to make sure at least half his seats went to locals.
It's been about five years now and it's still not an easy reservation but I no longer have to logon at 12:01am on the 3rd of the month to score a seat two months from now or go attend a street concert on a random Tuesday afternoon in order to get early access to the reservations list.
I spend summers in Central Portugal after enduring the winter of Canada's North. Sometimes my Canadian friends want to spend a couple of days in Portugal and ask me what's for a good place to visit, or a good attraction to go to, etc. I always answer the same:
I have no idea. I don't go as a tourist. I go to live in my family's home town for 6 or 7 weeks and not think about work. I don't have any recommendations for a checklist. I avoid the touristy places if I can.
I then turn it around on them. If someone was visiting Canada for 2 or 3 days, where do you tell them to go? I dunno.
Basically human "interesting-ness" is a very wide spectrum, skewed with a very long tail.
The average person may not be an interesting model for getting the most out of life in a short time in any particular place, but the top 0.1% of people measured by the texture, quality and interesting-ness of their lives exceeds any metric of "noteworthy events per hour" by a factor of 100.
The phrase "do what the locals do" is very vague. Like, think about your own life - the "local" places that you go to hang out, drink, eat, have fun etc. differ very much depending on:
- your means of transportation
- how wealthy you are
- who you're with
- whether it's a special occasion or just a random Tuesday
There is one tourist trap I have seen often, and that is thinking one needs to do a certain list of things to see everything in your one visit of the place.
Check the lists of tourist traps, see what interests you and fill your day there with whatever excites you.
> But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
This is an idiosyncratic and gratuitously contrarian take on what the actual advice means. If you go to New York, you're more likely to have a good time at a random neighborhood bar that the locals frequent than at a bar in Times Square. If you're in a small town, at least some of the locals probably know about a good hike 20 minutes out of town with a great view that would be hard to find otherwise. Don't overthink it.
We lived close to the Formula One track in Melbourne for a time. They gave out free tickets to locals, as a kind of compensation for the noise and construction disturbance, so my young son and I enjoyed a day of rummaging around and seeing the cars, logos, hotdogs and candifloss. But the best bit has always been the epic flypass of the 747 or A380 and very noisy fighter jets.
Melbourne has spent a lot on extensive bike pathways and new train stops, and recently made some tram travel free [ as a crowd-pleaser to counter petrol price hikes ], so its quite a pretty city to explore on foot or bike.
Bangkok and Danang have some great cafes .. the best seem to be when you wander a few sois away from the main shopping zones.
I especially like seeing the old wooden elevated Thai houses, which are becoming rare. Another way to find hidden gems, is walk along the banks of a klong - you get to see the underbelly of the city, without the makeup.
The locals in Bangkok tend to love the new shiny hypermalls and pristine train stations that segway into them. The air-con is nice after an hour of roadside bargain hunting.
In BKK, if you like bargains on clothing or bricabrac, I _highly_ recommend going to the top floor of the Pantip building across and west down the road from the shiny upgraded 'The Mall' Ngamwongwan. The weekend indoor market is crazy busy with affordable bargain stalls with the cheapest jeans, tees etc. Smaller but more enjoyable than the massive and more famous Chatuchak. If by chance you need alterations, there are a couple of great shops on the 5th floor, iirc - 60 baht hems, wow. The 4th? floor foodcourt is quieter than most. There is a whole floor of Thai buddhist good luck charm amulets. You'll have to run the gamut of outdoor stalls to get into the place, but that can be fun. There is also an incredible coffee shop down soi 27, called "High Coffee Roaster". I was stranded looking for my airbnb, and a local came out of a shop and asked me if I was lost .. then recommended a local cafe I could wait at until checkin. The cafe staff caught me smelling my coffee, as it was so good, and then gifted me a tiny dish of ground coffee specifically to smell .. incredible coffee and superb service.
First line: "My best piece of travel advice is to avoid doing what the locals do."
The writer seems incapable of distinguishing between the special, cool local things the locals KNOW about, and which a tourist might well benefit from trying, and the things locals DO because they don't do those special, cool things every day. Instead locals are usually doing similar things to what we normally do.
Speaking as someone from Edinburgh where the locals are notoriously jaded (ask someone that has lived in edi for a few years what festival shows they went to this year): It's more that we _forget_ rather than never knowing.
Asks me what cool things to do nearby on the spot and I'll probably draw a blank. But say what you are doing instead and I'll probably go "oh yeah! That's brilliant! I love thing X".
I do know where good dog walking spots just outside Edinburgh are though, and I'm still regularly discovering more because I'm effectively a tourist ;).
I struggle with this too in Edinburgh; I make a point of trying to stay engaged and keep recognizing how amazing the place is from the outside.
Going to the festival (and the book festival, back when that was in Charlotte Square) is improved by leaning into your local status and knowing how to duck in and out. And ideally knowing someone with a lanyard who can get you into the media bar: it's not cooler and more happening in there, it's actually quieter.
There's a vennel route across the city. It's an odd experience going through a deserted and mildly unpleasant alley, stepping out into a shuffling horde of tourists, cutting sideways across their paths, and ducking behind some bins into another quiet path. Like walking from the wings of the stage across it.
Further, he specifically mentioned Bordain, who focussed predominantly on food, and I think the concept of doing what the locals do is hugely rooted in choosing a restaurant. As in: locals won't eat in overpriced tourist traps, and will have had the chance to try enough local spots to know where's good. So if you want to choose a (e.g.) Chinese restaurant, choose one with lots of Chinese people in. (This applies whether you're in China or elsewhere.)
That sort of advice never made sense to me. I used to live in a very non-touristic place, and there were tons of terrible food places, despite only being able to live off "the locals" who were supposed to know better.
> there are a lot of places where the locals goes because they are cheap not because they are good
Por que no los dos? The whole cheap/good-choose-one thing is not universal in my experience. I've rarely been steered wrong by trying out the cheap-and-cheerful local option
When I was an expat, there was a subtle kind of experience in settling into buying groceries and getting haircuts from the local providers. Or shopping for furniture for our own apartment, or hiring someone to do remodeling on a house...
But, I'm the type who also finds enjoyment in the same scenic trails and camping areas visited hundreds of times in my life in different seasons, etc. I don't need to try to see everything once in a superficial, whirlwind of a tour...
this, you need to find the active locals that care about their community. the curious ones that like to explore and they will tell you. i could show you places in vienna that no tourist has ever seen, right in the center of town. i have gone on a day hike with a family in japan, up the mountain right near where they lived. no idea how well known that place was. same for new zealand and other places. china is touristically well developed. mostly for domestic tourism, so there finding the special spots only the locals know is more difficult. but they do exist. one friend took me eating at a local buddhist temple in the small industrial town where i lived. people taking me to their favorite hangout spots gives me a glimpse of what local life is like.
The corollary of this is that if you are a local you should do some more touristy things.
I don't mean to go to a tourist trap and get scammed, but just enjoy your city a little more and do some things that usually only tourists do.
For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I? It's for tourists. Except it's probably quite fascinating, especially for a local.
I've been exploring related feelings in the related "For me, this is just a Tuesday" space. I had started to feel like a food tour group was stalking me personally. My usual Tuesday lunch. My usual Friday dinner. So forth. The first "gut feeling" was irritation. It's a lot of people showing up in a small space with random lectures distracting from whatever I was doing while eating (such as often reading a book).
It took a couple weeks, but I realized that I was the spoiled one and the other side of "For me this is a Tuesday" should be "I'm glad my local businesses are interesting to tours" and "It's easy to forget how impressed I might be with this lunch if I was visiting some other town, isn't it great it can be my 'usual Tuesday'?"
I started listening to some of the lectures. I could easily mock some of them and/or clarify/edit/fix mistakes in them, but also they can still be an interesting bit of perspective, including the way that tourists respond to them. It's fun to have that tourist perspective of the local area.
It's also a fun reminder to do and try more of the tourist things locally. When your "usual Tuesday" is someone else's exciting and desired vacation experience, what else are you seeing with the somewhat dulled eyes of being a local but would greatly enjoy if you thought like a visitor to your own city?
Tower of London is not a touristy thing its a culture thing.
I know quite a lot of all the cities i lived in. I have been a good tourguide to friends and family because you just learn stuff about your city.
I will not go to that one ferris wheel because some company build it, i saw them building it, its in a location which is weird, and why would i go on a ferris wheel in my city?
But everything else? The main castle, yes! The residence, english garden, white rose, german museum, Shirker's Alley, old michael, etc. yes! Have been plenty of times.
This comment resonnate with me and in the last few months that is why I have been working on a side project to "be a tourist" in your own town.
https://www.izeria.com/en
Where you can discover places near you and connect to their history, I have also added some check-in mechanics and quiz to gaming the experience and for to actually go see the place in person.
Think Pokemon go but for Wikipedia places.
it looks like you are violating Wikipedia's copyright by using text from their articles without attribution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights#Reusers'_...
Absolutely love this! Are you live pulling from Wikipedia for each search?
Also worth checking out Atlas Obscura. Kind of similar, kind of different.
Yes, this is amazing. I would love to know where the data is coming from.
I’m routinely surprised by native San Franciscans who’ve never been to Alcatraz, seen Pier 39, or gone whale watching. Yes, they’re touristy things to do. They’re also very interesting and lots of fun!
Agreed! I routinely cycle around the city and one of my favorite loops is along the Embarcadero and up through Pier 39 and Fisherman’s Wharf.
We live in a beautiful city that people come from all over to see and there are good reasons for that. I’ll also offer to take pictures of families taking their photos with the sea lions (which I also always stop to watch) and chat them up a bit. Fun times.
Have you seen Chonkers yet? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chonkers-the-massi...
He is a Stellers Sea lion (2,500 lbs and 11 feet) while generally the other sea lions are Caldiornia Sea Lions (850 lbs and 7 feet).
I finally went to Alcatraz after years where I've either lived in SF or visited for work. It was worth spending some time out there! Great views as well.
Alcatraz or whale watching? Sure.
But Pier 39? I’d rather poke my eyeballs out with a stick. I can eat shitty fast food at home, thanks.
I've lived in London, various places within the M25, for about 40 years now and still walk around looking up and enjoying exploring both new and old places. We do the Hidden City treasure hunts which is a great way of finding new spots.
Tower of London is good, there is so much history in there and a number of exhibitions well worth seeing.
I've done most of the "tourist traps"[1] and really enjoyed them. The London Eye gives you great views, especially at sunset; The Shard (cocktail bar, not done the viewing platform) is a bit expensive and style over substance but still worth doing once; Buckingham Palace is a world class historical living building; The South Bank has a lot going on and also gives great views of London; The Royal Albert Hall is a stunning concert venue; most of the big museums are free.
The one place I've not done as it really doesn't appeal to me is Madame Tussauds.
[1] Compared to other cites apart from the pedal rickshaws and the find-the-lady on Westminster bridge I don't think London is inundated with rip-off tourist traps like many other cities appear to be.
In case you don't know:
"Tower Hamlets residents visit for just £1
Local residents within the borough of Tower Hamlets can visit the Tower of London for only £1.00."
It's worth a visit being a tourist or a local.
Wasn’t this the original definition of staycation. That you would stay at home and make day trips out to local destinations for a week.
For some, it means you break out the tiny paper umbrellas to put in a drink and sit on your own balcony or sofa instead of a tourist beach...
I live in the DC area and it is kind of sad that a lot of people here haven't been to the various Smithsonian museums (which are free) here, or haven't been since they were children.
As a fellow Londoner I can confirm it's worth visiting and the crown jewels are also nicely presented. Don't be fooled into queueing for the bloody tower torture chamber, anything you can see seemed to be a Victorian fantasy.
They have been fracking oil like 15 minutes walk from my previous house since 1986… I just found out after seeing a curious sign on a fence around a pretty secluded terrain when taking a stroll. It only became public knowledge a year or so ago when the government announced publicly that they would continue operations for another x years. Protests are still ongoing. Take more local strolls!
More importantly: future tourist trap! You should set up a lemonade stand.
I have a lot of friends from other countries so I've ended up doing a lot of tourist stuff together with them when they've been visiting.
It has been great, gave me another layer of appreciation for my hometown Gothenburg, Sweden.
My grew up on Long Island and not once did she go to a Broadway show. She's a bit regretful about it now that she's moved halfway across the country.
100%. I've lived in Paris well over a year and finally walked up on the Eiffel Tower and I enjoyed it. But of course not in July or August! But being local means you can go on an unexpectedly sunny March weekend.
I took a trip to the Château de Vincennes this weekend, a nice place and not crowded at all.
I lived in Manhattan for a decade and never went to see the Statue of Liberty. And it’s not like I wasn’t doing lots of things and I would go out three or four times a week and I’ve been to all sorts of places in NYC. Just never been to the Statue of Liberty.
> For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I?
Why wouldn't you?
Note: It's great, you should go.
Not the parent but it's lowbrow to do touristy things in London.
And if you aren't going on holiday or an expensive weekend away or to an expensive restaurant, you're poor and your career is failing.
I only half jest
It's mostly paid-for touristy things that are sneered at, in my experience. No-one's going to look askance if you spend a day in the BM, V&A, or National Gallery even though they're listed in every guide book and are always rammed with tourists.
Madame Tussauds, The London Dungeon, The Clink, The Sherlock Holmes Museum, though? Ugh.
The ToL isn't entirely contrived like those, but is paid-for so you can see why people might feel awkward about it. As others have noted, though, Tower Hamlets residents get in for £1 which makes it pretty much acceptable - especially if you go on a rainy Tuesday in February when queues are at their shortest...
I am Swiss and like most 30-40yo from my generation, Hiking in the splendid nature, lakes and mountains, visiting touristy places and the overall scenery was something uncool, for old people. We were forced to do that in school. Nobody in their right mind would do it. :)
I then moved abroad to Bangkok, working an office job. Although BKK is great for consumerism and convenience, especially with cheap labor available for almost anything, you can get quite lazy. The bad traffic, non-pedestrian friendly (non existent) city planning and little nature left also makes it a bit cumbersome to find nature nearby. This made me appreciate nature, hiking and nice scenery. (Of course Thailand has lots of beautiful nature and scenery, but not so much of an active outdoor scene)
Coming back to Switzerland after 6 years, I became the biggest tourist, going hiking every weekend, spending time at our tourist destinations, but also all the second tier ("unseen") places only locals know. I tried so much stuff that in the past I thought is tourist stuff, and most of it is simply great.
I also became much more understanding, open and helpful to expats, foreigners and tourists in my country.
> Hiking in the splendid nature, lakes and mountains, visiting touristy places and the overall scenery was something uncool, for old people.
That is an amazing revelation to me.
In my country I can't visit some of the hiking trails I crossed as a child because they've become overcrowded since.
When I went to Switzerland for a contract the first thing I did when I had a free weekend was to go to the peak of the tallest mountain I could find.
I thought it was more of a thing in Switzerland.
The title is a non sequitur from the argument. The point is not to ask for a "bring a non-local to work day" where you tag along to a rando doing their normal routine.
The thing that locals do know a lot of the time, is the spots that are actually great but not hyped up by influencers/social media, the cool spots that are often good by virtue of not being well known, etc. And no one is arguing that the locals know all the best cultural attractions, the point of asking locals for advice is to understand what they see in their own city.
This is where platforms like Couchers.org or whatever come up, where you want to actually understand the locals, more than just see the hyped up touristy stuff (which often can also be phenomenal!).
That was my take, too.
The advice isn't to literally live a life in the day of a local, it's to ask the locals what the interesting things to do are. Nobody is actually suggesting that you go hang out at an office for 8 hours, stop by an affordable grocery store and then watch Netflix.
E.G. People in Seattle will not tell you to go to the space needle or to Pike Place Market (at best you might hear that you should go at least once). They will tell you to ride a bike from Lake Union to the Locks on a sunny day, and you will have more fun and see more than fighting the crowds at Pike Place.
There is a reason why touristic spots are touristic spots, even before the rise of social media and influencers. The reason is that they are usually the nicest spot in that zone.
Same reason why rich people buy (and inflate its value) land for holidays homes in certain places and not others. Because those are nicer places, where the landscape is beautiful.
The point is that the locals tend to think that spots which are actually generic and uninteresting are great because the mediocre imported cuisine they serve is different from the local food or their friend works there, and that spots full of influencers which are actually great aren't that interesting because they'd personally never consider taking a bus to the centre to queue up with tourists to enjoy a rooftop with a view when they can have coffee with their friends in their own suburb at a chain they've got a loyalty card for. Sometimes seeing what banal stuff people think is amazing and what beautiful stuff they take for granted is educational in its own right, but it's not necessarily a better way to plan a holiday than a guidebook.
You say that, but I’ve more than a few times found myself scratching my head when a local person has not known basics about where they live - everything from not knowing that there’s a supermarket one block over, to having never heard of the culture whose ruins litter their city.
I think the worst local advice I ever had sent me on a 3000km detour and got me interrogated by the FSB - basically it was “oh don’t go south of the Aral Sea, the road is terrible, you will die” - turns out that the road north of the sea had already been demolished so a new one could be built, and the one south had already been completely rebuilt.
Honestly, most locals don’t know shit about where they live.
The reason people use "When in Rome..." or "do as the locals do" is because that's how you get an accurate taste of what life in <place> is like. If you don't want to experience a glimpse of life in Paris, then sure go eat at a tourist trap. The quote below from TFA is an inadvertent own goal, I think:
>But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
Perhaps TFAuthor hails from a place that isn't interesting enough for tourists to visit. Lots of small towns across the USA and Canada don't offer any compelling reason to visit unless you have relatives there.
There's a reason tourists flock to New York City and not to Schenectady.
>The reason people use "When in Rome..." or "do as the locals do" is because that's how you get an accurate taste of what life in <place> is like.
>There's a reason tourists flock to New York City and not to Schenectady.
Ah, yes. The masses of tourists flocking to NYC so they can experience the grind of working your ass off, every entity you interact with trying to get one over on you hoping that you'll have a) banked enough to day cash out to <shuffles cards> Hazleton Pennsylvania b) spend so many years in one apartment you're paying far below market rate.
> spots that are actually great but not hyped up
One phenomenon I noticed is that unpaid things (even if they're world class museums) often get left in the shadow of others that sell tickets - these get packaged in "city pass" cards, etc. and get more exposure from their selling.
I live in a tourist town (population 45k, with 2M visitors this past season). It's truly lovely. Our museums kick ass, the food and cocktails punch above their weight, and there are countless activities in the off season. Sure, I can get a cheaper burger or pay less rent just a few miles down the road, but instead I stay and benefit from tourists pushing the quality upwards. I often see folks focusing on the low-effort schlock shop, damning all tourists, before heading to one of the 8 local coffee shops (who could never survive on locals alone). The best thing a local can do is to openly give recommendations, helping to hold competition and quality to a high standard.
That could well be my town. Much of what you say is true. The main street, which was hard hit from a shopping center taking all business away from the city centre, has two nice (non chain) coffee places. There's also a (non chain) Italian place which is excellent. But there's also, I think about 5 pure tourist tat shops. One with a very prominent AI generated moose. Those are what make money. They extract the value that the actually good places create, and in return they drive up rent for the good places.
One of the reasons the shopping center did so well in the first place, was that they could charge lower rents for shops which bring more value to the center than they capture themselves (such as cafes) and higher rents to shops which make money but whose social contribution is low or negative (like betting shops or tourist tat shops).
It is obvious that "do what the locals do" should not be taken literally, because locals are likely working most of the day. So the authors actual advice seems to be "avoid what the locals do, when they don't want to do anything". Everyone else likely interprets it as "do what the locals do, when they want to have fun" which is good advice.
My daily routines are of no interest to tourist. They are probably similar to their own routines at home anyway. When I got out on the weekends it can get wild though and I'd wager it's exactly what many tourists are looking for.
Yeah, I felt this was obvious as well. I like to "do what the locals do" when I travel, but by that I don't mean work during the weekdays of my vacation or spring clean an apartment. And if I say "do what the locals do" no one else would think I mean that I worked or did house chores.
One of my favorite trips was a business trip to Barcelona. Worked during the day in a unique office with folks I didn’t get to work in person a lot, toured an 800 year old church I passed waking back to the hotel.
Im sure im an outlier but one of my favorite things to do is literally “do what the locals do”
I live in a tourist town. 3000 residents, 4 million visitors each year. And I'm just fine with the tourists not going to the places I go - we tend to like the quieter, more affordable places vs. the big fancy price-gouging places. But assuming that us "locals" just sit at home and do nothing is such an unfair and inaccurate assessment. Why would I want to live in a town as crazy as this if I did nothing here?
I enjoy having a vast variety of restaurants and activities that I otherwise would not have in a small town in the Midwest. The roads are well maintained, we have more parks than we otherwise would, there are trails, rivers, and tons of activities. We don't spend all our time partaking of the tourist activities, but we abso-freaking-lutely spend some time enjoying what the town has to offer.
No fair! I live in a place with lots of tourism and the roads are terrible.
Same here. Potholes in England are part of the tourist package.
> They might grab some mediocre Mexican food on the outskirts of Helsinki because they already eat Finnish food at home and want something different. They might hang out with some friends at the Kaivopuisto park. Maybe they would go on a hike? What I’m getting at here is that, even in the best case, the locals are usually not having very exciting (or very ‘authentic’) days.
Unironically this is the experience I’m often looking for in another country. I want touristy days, but I also want to see their supermarkets. Their stores. Walk through a local park. Sit in a coffee shop and read a book. One of my favorite things to do is try foreign food in another country, because Chinese and Japanese and Mexican food is different as it’s adapted to different counties tastes.
To paraphrase the philosopher Vincent Vega, it’s the little differences.
I used to live in Bologna, Italy and the variety of "foreign" restaurants there is amazing.
Quotation marks because there's always a (not exactly obvious) Italian twist to these places.
The quirkiest example of this would be a small chain of restaurants named "America Graffiti" (yeah). Overall theme is a 60s diner. It's not present anymore in Bologna, but there are several in neighbouring towns.
The locals are living their lives on an organic cadence. They're not maximizing entertainment value or whatever. They will certainly know entertaining things to do, but it's literally not their job to entertain tourists. Maybe seeking out a Disneyland like experience in someone else's home is the problem? Bourdain, Rick Steves, et al. are fun to watch, but I can't help but feel they've actually made the world a worse place by romanticizing tourism. There are many sayings about how travel reduces prejudice... but if you actually look at it at scale, it's almost always a global negative.
While the folks like Bourdain did romanticize tourism, and TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers, they did at least project the proper attitude of embracing the differences in other cultures when they traveled to places.
The current issues with tourism are significantly more to do with "influencers" and social media. Many places are overrun by people that are just there to get their photos and have zero interest in engaging with the culture or treating locals with respect.
Its shocking how different some places have gotten due to "influencers". Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago. It struck me when walking around a couple places that there are photos I took during my first trip that would simply be impossible to get today because of the number of people in the way.
> Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago.
Usually explained by a different time of week/year/month. If you stay in a place for a while you get a sense of patterns. Often there's waves of tourists depending on neighboring country holidays and if you're a local you learn to avoid popular landmarks during those times.
> TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers
You make it sound like that's the problem and not increasing rent. If one day your place looks much more profitable everyone involved will try to get a piece.
Ah yes all those other people who want to take photos ruining your chance to take photos...
I was once on the bus (in my own home town) with someone from Dublin (which I was visiting in a week back then), he recommended I not go to Temple Bar: "It's just for tourists". So where should I go? "There are some nice bars in ${some District}".
Well I passed though said district and saw some pretty drab houses and some bars with TVs (not my thing). Went to Temple Bar: It was vivid, with live music and many cheerful people on the street.
So in short: I concur with the author.
My best travel advice (for urban areas) is simple: get lost. If you don't know exactly where you are or what's around the corner, you've got to take it as it comes, and that makes it all the more interesting. No FOMO or opportunity cost struggles, just what's in front of you right now.
This is both easier and harder with smartphones and GPS. Harder because, well, you know exactly where you are and have to actively ignore the phone. Easier because when you're ready to be done, you know exactly where you are!
As someone who's traveled quite a bit, I love doing this but I should also warn everyone to make sure they're in a place where it's safe to do so. While most tourist destinations are mostly fine, you don't want to end up in a random shady neighborhood in certain cities - even touristy ones (Barcelona, Paris, etc). It doesn't matter that 20 years ago you did it and it was fine, things have changed.
I did that once about twenty years ago. I was in Seoul for a few days for work, and I had the last day free before my plane out in the evening. Without checking a map or guidebook, I got on the subway, rode a few stops, went up to street level, and wandered around; I repeated this four or five times. Other than one nondescript office district, every area I emerged in was interesting: a wholesale textile market, an upscale residential neighborhood, a lively commercial district. Though I don’t know the names of the places I visited, I still remember them all these years later.
What are some of your experiences with this?
I can say I've had good and bad - I've wondered through cities with no direction and found -- nothing, two that come to mind are Paris and Barcelona. I'm sure there is interesting stuff to be found here and there but mostly, outside of the main attractions, I found the rest not much more interesting than American suburbia. Yes, I'm glad I saw it to basically see that "life is life". There's the interesting coast, or the restaurant row that's already on the tourist map, then there's the living areas where every block or two there's a convenience store, another non-descript cafe, a hair salon, etc... Maybe once in a while something sticks out but mostly not.
To be clear, I found both cities amazing. But, the "this city is amazing" parts are the parts listed as must visit. The "get lost parts" less so, with a few exceptions.
I've had more luck doing things further down the list. On 3rd or 4th visit, I'm not doing the top 10 most popular things. I'm down on 40th or 50th or 100th.
I liked walking around Paris and did found minor interesting things there: statues, parks, that sort of thing. Paris looked good outside of main tourist attraction to me.
My wife and I took a walk along one of the Paris canals on a nice early spring day. You are very right that there wasn't much exciting to see once we got out of the touristy areas but locals were out enjoying the day and it was nice to see how the more average Parisian lives rather than only seeing the attractions and neighborhoods occupied by the 7 zeroes and up class.
I think we walked 18 miles that day all told.
This is one of the only sensible comments in this entire thread. Just go wander, talk to and observe people, etc... I've traveled extensively and all of my best experiences are from this sort of thing.
As a local, one of the funnest things to do is to host out-of-town guests and to just do the touristy things in combination with local knowledge. Bus tours, museums, food, etc. Do it all. For me, it's stuff I'd probably never do unless pressed to provide entertainment for guests I care about.
So, do the local thing with tourists and retain a focus on a combination of showing off the best elements of being a local; with the wide-eyed enthusiasm of the tourist. As a blow-in to NY, I'd like others to appreciate it too.
Do what the tourists do, but with the locals. Do what the locals do, but with the tourists.
I work in tourism in Japan and so many tourists ask me what are some good places to eat. It’s such an annoying question because the honest answer is I eat what the locals eat, which is to say the most authentic Japanese cuisine is what you find in a Japanese supermarket. That’s what the people of Japan are actually eating. Of course that’s not really what the question is though, but my point is I’m not a good person to ask because I just eat normal stuff.
As a fellow resident of Japan, I find this sorta question very funny.
People naturally romanticize food of foreign cultures, but I can't help but giggle at the crazy hype given to Japanese food in particular. Especially considering how 'bland' the food is (at least, how bland it is to the American sensibility).
These days, I direct touristing friends towards foreigner-friendly restaurants that promise some sort of food "experience" (at the prices you'd expect)...while I mosey over to the nearest salaryman friendly hole-in-the-wall for some plain zaru soba or udon. One part because I'm eternally broke, and another because I genuinely like it more than the ungodly katsu-don concoctions larger than the standard birth weight.
Not that there isn't interesting 名物 depending on the region (although naturally the 名物 of Tokyo might as well be Taco Bell), but I've always found my friends to be disappointed by "real" Japanese food...even from the Yatai of my local Fukuoka (which is pretty darn good, as far as I'm concerned!) Let alone from places like rural Tohoku (the village a friend resided in had a specialty of whole-salamander tempura...bluegh).
My own experience has been that the average quality, and especially the like floor of the quality of food here in Japan is pretty high compared to Australia. What you get compared to what you pay for is especially high in Japan’s favour. But perhaps you’re right that the hype is not deserved, if you’re coming here expecting a heavenly experience then you’re probably going to be disappointed purely because of unrealistic expectations. I would say tourists from wealthy western countries should expect decent food for a great price. Touristic places might have higher prices though.
> It’s such an annoying question because the honest answer is I eat what the locals eat, which is to say the most authentic Japanese cuisine is what you find in a Japanese supermarket. That’s what the people of Japan are actually eating.
Well, that's only true if you also observe what Japanese customers are buying and do your best to mimic their habits.
You could go into any Italian supermarket and fill your cart with weißwurst, avocados, and Camembert cheese - and they're all right there in the meat, fruit, and dairy areas respectively, not in an 'ethnic' corner - but it would be hardly a good representation of what the locals typically eat.
Your answer is the answer I want. Why do you presume it's not valuable to say, "There's a good grocery store over there. I like X brand"?
Maybe I want to know a decent place I can get a cheap hot meal too, but I'm not interested in fancy meals or nice restaurants. I want the workaday egg salad from the tiny deli in New York that costs 4.99 and comes with a pickle. I want the simple pho that's the only thing on the menu. I want the tamales sold from a cooler in the Home Depot parking lot.
I wish there was a better way to signal that's what i want to find than, "Whats a good place to eat?"
I see what you mean, the thing about food in Japan though is that the minimum quality is pretty high. So I can’t really recommend a specific grocery store, all of the major ones have decent quality ready to eat food that just needs to be microwaved. (They usually have a microwave in the front of the store). Convince stores as well. I’m originally from Australia and so that’s my point of comparison, a convenience store karage bento here in Japan is similar in quality to a Japanese restaurant chain in Australia, but the price is like 1/3rd.
As for actual restaurants, I think the mistake tourists make is trying to find the best ramen or whatever, but the best isn’t going to be that much better than the average joint catering to locals. So in other words, spend less time thinking about where to go and just explore and pick a random place that you like the vibe of, that’s what I do and I’ve never been disappointed here.
I don’t really have time to say all that to every tourists that asks though lol.
Also I’m literally writing this from a random ramen place I walked into, and it was delicious!
I think this author misunderstands the intent of the expression "do what the locals do". It does not mean "do what an arbitrary or random local does" or even "do what the median local does".
It implies seeking the experiences and places that are popular with the locals and not popular with the tourists. It means finding a killer teriyaki or pho place in Seattle and avoiding the space needle, even if an average Seattle resident goes to neither type of place every day.
It means avoiding Times Square and instead wandering the other streets of Manhattan.
The locals do know. Maybe each individual local only visits once a month, but the aggregate knowledge of the locals knows. Great hole in the wall places are known by locals.
We've probably been to NYC ten times at this point. We stay out of Midtown except if we are going to a Broadway show. The subway can get you quite a ways. Head out to the Cloisters instead of the main Met museum. Be sure to walk around the rest of the park. It's a completely different version of New York. Not better, not worse, but completely new if you've only ever done Times Square and other popular spots. We took a subway and bus out to the Botanical Garden. Another gem that gets few out of town visitors but gives locals discounted access and they use it.
Heck, just walking around Harlem will give you an amazing day with 20% or less of the tourists.
I remember traveling 1000km for work. On the radio I heard of trips to where I lived. They were all prizes for some competition. I realized that my home was someone else's destination and my current place was where people from home's had chosen as a destination.
The grass is sometimes truly greener.
When I returned I looked at my home with the eyes of a tourist and went everywhere I could.
I have since traveled elsewhere. Some places are much better not to return to or even remain in.
I spent my childhood in a place that was a destination for others but later in life moved to a city. When the company i work at decided to have a trip there I was like eh whaterevr. its just some boring mountains and waterfalls but went anyway. Seeing my coworkers be really enjoying that was really an experience in itself.
There was one place i liked to go, it was kind of chill bar in a huge palazzo styled room. Like ballroom/theatre, with chill seats and sometimes small events. The place was huge and there was very little people. It got into tourist guides and is packed to the tits, with 4 western european teenagers getting out of bathroom stall at the same time... havent been there in years. So yeah. Locals used to but dont anymore :D
> I’m skeptical of the term tourist trap (it’s mostly used as a term to place yourself as higher status/taste than other people, and is often used out of insecurity)
One thing I've read years ago about tourist traps is that one shouldn't be actively trying to avoid them, especially if they come from a country with higher purchasing power.
Some of these "tourist trap" activities are locals trying to make an honest living doing what they can. It should be fine to take a tuk tuk, or to buy paintings and souvenirs from people off the street.
Everyone should avoid getting ripped off, but what's 0.1% of a month's wages to a tourist could pay for an entire day's meals for a local.
I don't think people should get ripped off just because they can afford it.
If you visit Sweden, don't buy ice cream in the historic area of Stockholm ("gamla stan").
As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home". But you are not helping a starving ice cream labourer with your purchase, you are simply being taken for a ride. Walk a couple of blocks more and check the signs, and you can buy it at half price from a respectable establishment instead. Most likely the ice cream will be better at the next place as well.
I don't think it's "ripping off" tourists to ask them to pay a price they can easily afford rather than the usual local price, ridiculously low for a tourist.
I cringe when I hear Europeans proud that they haggled to death on an African market to lower the price from "cheap" to "dirt cheap". Dude, that's pocket change for you, can't you help the local economy a bit, and help the guy feed his family?
In Washington DC, don't buy ice cream from the trucks in the national mall.
> As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home".
Is this a joke? $10 for a single scoop of ice cream in the US is a lot of money and also the US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. You can barely feed yourself with the US minimum wage and you definitely can't pay for shelter or healthcare or anything else you would need to survive here, but that's a story for another time.
The current US minimum wage is so way below market wages in most places to be meaningless, though. I'm sure McDonald's would like to hire people at $7.25/hr (or better yet have robots that they don't have to pay after acquiring). But currently, they have to advertise that their starting salary for workers near me is $14/hr because if they don't they won't get anyone. Politicians like to talk about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever as if that would suddenly give working class people a huge raise, but it would simply reflect the existing reality.
By my definition "tourist traps" are both low quality and high price... and also fairly easy to avoid. If you can walk three blocks away from a major attraction and find restaurants that are both cheaper and better, then the other ones are tourist traps. If they're decent quality but merely expensive due to their location, then they're charging for convenience and there's nothing much wrong with that.
> Some of these "tourist trap" activities are locals trying to make an honest living doing what they can.
The local working in hospitality is earning minimum wage, the premium you pay goes to the landlord.
While this is often true for businesses with fixed premises, it's less true for the market stalls along the street, or the random tour guides.
Also, as a visitor with substantially more purchasing power, you can afford to tip the lad working for local minimum wage
I think the writer of this misunderstands "tourist trap."
Tourist traps, at least as I see it, are places or activities that are more expensive than they should be.
For example, a tourist trap in Tokyo is going to the top of SkyTree. It's not something locals can really reasonably afford doing more than once, because it's really expensive. The price is such that basically only tourists would do it.
Tourist trap as i see it is restaurant that will give you below average local food, for 3 times the price a good local food should cost, just because it is in the middle of the tourist area. Or tacky bars for tourists with different "attractions" to sell you watered down alcohol for high prices. For me, this is much worse than one time entrance to attraction. Because tourists thinks that this is the local culture.
My little related insight, is that maps are extremely lossy. Even satellite maps. Life on the ground, is full of detail.
When I travelled Japan specifically, maps didn't tell you much at all. It might look like a residential deadzone from high up, but be bustling with cool stuff to do when you walk through.
For a friend's birthday we actually did a hiking tour through the city we grew up in, and realized we knew very little about the city we grew up in.
That should be enough motivation to start where you're already standing. Build up from there. Figure out if you want to see more mountains, more ocean, whatever. It's a great eye-opener.
I try to add some randomness to my travels. Just pick a few random places on a map, research them for a few minutes, and if there is anything remotely interesting there, just go there. If you discover something more interesting on the way and never reach your destination, then you definitively succeeded.
A less grumpy corollary: do the things in your town that you only do when you have visitors.
Better advice isn't 'do what the locals do' or 'avoid what the locals do'. It's to actually talk to people, both locals and other travelers, instead of treating either group as a script to copy from a distance. Have a beer, ask questions, hang out, and see what people are really into.
> It's to actually talk to people
Historically, that's what the locals did. This is 'do what the locals do' always referred to. Other comments call out entities like Bourdain who pushed 'do what the locals do' into popularization, but even he spent his time talking to the locals. That was his whole schtick.
It may be fair to say that in the modern age locals no longer talk to each other. Perhaps that is the source of disconnect we're now seeing?
That's a bingo!
I live in Sydney, does anyone have any recommendations on things I should do?
Things I'd like to try -
* Visiting the tank stream (I believe there are tours)
* The Greater Sydney Bike Trail
* Walking from Manly to Bondi (80km along the harbour)
Things I've done but recommend if you visit -
* Walking the bridge (free)
* Catching a ferry to Manly or Taronga
* Climbing the bridge (expensive!)
* Centrepoint tower (since renamed to Sydney Eye Tower)
* The botanic gardens
* Any beach (I prefer the harbour beaches, there's dozens to choose from)
Edit: Sorry I cannot get the formatting correct
I'll be visiting next month so can't comment yet if it is any good, but kayaking Sydney Harbour sounds like a lot of fun.
Lots of tour operators doing it, deals on BookMe and Groupon.
I also live in Sydney, and the first question to ask is always "do you have a car?" (and then "how long you here for?")? A car makes it much easier to visit various spots (e.g. the national parks, Mount Annan (https://maps.app.goo.gl/WJRcJY8RHtRLV7Tm9) IMHO is a better botanic garden than Royal (the one in the city) because it focuses on native plants, Blue Mountains/Hawkesbury, the various zoos which are further out), whereas if you don't have a car the city has enough things close by to do. Powerhouse is great (the real one, not the one which is going to flood), Australia museum is great, if you can go on a ghost tour for the Rocks and the QStation. There's lots of other minor museums throughout the city, esp. the Rocks.
Locals trend conservative, always giving the advice "don't do that, you'll definitely die" because they remember one bad incident 10 or 20 years ago and never clock how circumstances have changed. My favorite is the time I was warned over and over by several different people about not going somewhere because I would surely be killed by foreigners or wolves. Dude, what? If there was a major problem with one, it would scare off the other. Are they working together?? lol
Definitely agree in some cases. eg where I live ( Auckland, New Zealand ) plenty of people read stories in the local paper or facebook that highlight every single incident in the Central city. So they are scared to go there.
Reality is thousands of white-collar workers (including me), normal locals and many tourists of all ages. Small number of homeless. But no more dangerous than any other city (and a lot safer during the day and early evening )
well that's not always the case - I live in place where you can jog with earphones at 2AM and only worry about drunk drivers (very rare)
as a local, there was a lot of places that are "visible to foreigners but invisible to locals" -- cafes/view spots/hipster-places that only advertises to foreigners (they didn't even have signboards) I learnt about those places when some foreign friends took me there
[flagged]
> Insane naivety.
At the beginning, absolutely. At some point though if it keeps working.. a traveler that takes many risks might be better at evaluating them than a random person they could consult. And/or part of getting there is learning to evaluate which random persons to listen to ;)
I live in a very touristy area:
> P.S. if you are a local, you can do all of this too.
Last year, after spending a bunch of money putting in a fence, and having a puppy that didn't travel well, we decided that we were just going to take a week off and be tourists at home. We visited the museums we've driven by daily for eight years, and had a blast.
And, living in a touristy area, I want to point out that "do what the locals do" is excellent advice. I'll tell you all about where to get great food, great hikes, and not-too-crowded beaches. (Except the residents-only beach. We reserve that for us.)
That would be lovely but seems people really really want to be in the same places I am.
This year just called defeat and I'm moving out to the countryside, hopefully. My city had almost no tourist three years ago and now I had to shout twice to a tourist guide for using a very loud speaker in the very street I live in.
Just today I saw a 1 start review in a place I really like, by a german lady that was baffled waiters didn't even try to speak english to her.
It's just impossible to fight this. Guess we'll have to make our nice place elsewhere until tourists find out.
This article kind of misses the point - of course everyone’s average day is … average. But locals don’t spend all of their days like this, sometimes (once a week/month/year) they would do something fun, or they want to.
You asking them for advice or for them to show you around might push them to do something fun themselves, which they haven’t done in a while. But they have a lot more local context about what _might_ be good to explore or not.
They also know people - they themselves might have average days, but everyone knows that fun person that is the social glue that does all the fun stuff they can direct you - 7 degrees of separation and all that.
And lastly sure - treat the locals ideas with a grain of salt - I never do _exactly_ what the locals tell me, but it is another data point to make your own plans.
When I travel I like to make huge holes in my plans - uncharted time for me to fill in when I’m at location - from local sources or just doing the research then and there. It has always been more natural and interesting to do the sight seeing planing at location, so you can adjust and correct anyway. I guess have adopted the startup mentality of start small and iterate even for my travel experiences :)
I'd take you mushroom hunting (but really just exploring and running around in the forest this time of year), maybe pick up a trout on the way home to grill. That's a few days a week for me (the trout leas though).
As for touristy things here in Zurich - it's not really a tourist city. When we have guests from overseas we do have a set of activities to bring them on. When I've offered to bring them in the forest to find mushrooms/berries/etc they're usually not so interested.
In a lot of places the best mushroom spots are guarded secrets.
You would have to sign an nda.
That museum behind the Bahnhof is pretty cool, I thought.
I have been a tourist in Seattle for 15 years. I kayak the lakes, go to the popular restaurants, run the scenic routes, drive through winding roads to avoid traffic, do the basic hikes near town, spend evenings at the locks, joined the sailing club, take the rideshare scooters, karaoke at the passé locations, get groceries at pike place, see the tulips, get coffee at monorail espresso.
I wonder when I’ll ever “become a local”!?
You’re a local when you start complaining about the tourists ;)
On the other hand, too many tourists is a thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMYbYuhKFdw
This advice is so unnecessary to the point that it sounds weird. I lived in a touristy place, and trust me, as a tourist you won't be doing what locals do by default. No special decision, no efforts needed at all.
Okay, okay, but Slay the Spire 2 is a fantastic game though and I've had an absolute blast playing it.
Do what you would do at home on a week off.
Chill out on my porch, read a book, make a salad? I don't think that's what the post is getting at.
That's what I did on my last vacation, and it was lovely.
Except that I was in a cabin, on an island, in a foreign country. And the reason I was absolutely undistracted from my book, is that I'd turned my phone off before crossing the border. And I left it off, all week.
The isolation and quiet surroundings made the "week off" truly off. Nobody could reach me if they tried. Whatever calamity befell my boss, he'd just have to wait.
That's so much better than I'd normally do at home on a week off, and it was 100% worth the travel to achieve it.
Right, it's a weird thing to travel for though.
Why? I don't have a porch at home, and it's too hot to sit outside and read.
My favorite vacations have been the ones where we've planned or been forced into a day of downtime amidst multiple days of go-go see the sights. I hope to never again be a seven countries in six days type of traveler.
We just spent 14 days in Mexico City. We'd been before, so got to visit some 2nd and 3rd tier sights and also just spent a few days vibing in the neighborhood. Meals for two were anywhere from $5 to $600 and almost all of them were excellent.
> Meals for two were anywhere from $5 to $600
I have to know what the $300/person meal was
But I could just do that at home. Why travel?
This is part of the wider conversation. At least one reason is because other peoples' home is not your Disneyland.
I would quite like for more of the cafes and restaurants near my home to be other peoples' Disneyland, to some extent, since this would provide a lot of jobs in the area and help the owners.
It can be a double edged sword. A restaurant near me got written up in the NYTimes and a few other "foodie" publications. What used to be a plan a head a few weeks reservation turned into the place selling out the month in less than 10 minutes.
The owner, recognizing that eventually the hype would die down and locals are his lifeblood, had to come up with all kinds of creative ways to make sure at least half his seats went to locals.
It's been about five years now and it's still not an easy reservation but I no longer have to logon at 12:01am on the 3rd of the month to score a seat two months from now or go attend a street concert on a random Tuesday afternoon in order to get early access to the reservations list.
I spend summers in Central Portugal after enduring the winter of Canada's North. Sometimes my Canadian friends want to spend a couple of days in Portugal and ask me what's for a good place to visit, or a good attraction to go to, etc. I always answer the same:
I have no idea. I don't go as a tourist. I go to live in my family's home town for 6 or 7 weeks and not think about work. I don't have any recommendations for a checklist. I avoid the touristy places if I can.
I then turn it around on them. If someone was visiting Canada for 2 or 3 days, where do you tell them to go? I dunno.
Basically human "interesting-ness" is a very wide spectrum, skewed with a very long tail.
The average person may not be an interesting model for getting the most out of life in a short time in any particular place, but the top 0.1% of people measured by the texture, quality and interesting-ness of their lives exceeds any metric of "noteworthy events per hour" by a factor of 100.
OT, but I didn't know that .com allowed domains with a double-dash.
Seems analogous to never doing "kid stuff" unless you have kids.
The phrase "do what the locals do" is very vague. Like, think about your own life - the "local" places that you go to hang out, drink, eat, have fun etc. differ very much depending on:
- your means of transportation
- how wealthy you are
- who you're with
- whether it's a special occasion or just a random Tuesday
There is one tourist trap I have seen often, and that is thinking one needs to do a certain list of things to see everything in your one visit of the place.
Check the lists of tourist traps, see what interests you and fill your day there with whatever excites you.
> But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
This is an idiosyncratic and gratuitously contrarian take on what the actual advice means. If you go to New York, you're more likely to have a good time at a random neighborhood bar that the locals frequent than at a bar in Times Square. If you're in a small town, at least some of the locals probably know about a good hike 20 minutes out of town with a great view that would be hard to find otherwise. Don't overthink it.
What is this post. The point is normal people do normal things in their normal lives.
I regret reading and commenting, but hopefully save someone else.
We lived close to the Formula One track in Melbourne for a time. They gave out free tickets to locals, as a kind of compensation for the noise and construction disturbance, so my young son and I enjoyed a day of rummaging around and seeing the cars, logos, hotdogs and candifloss. But the best bit has always been the epic flypass of the 747 or A380 and very noisy fighter jets.
Melbourne has spent a lot on extensive bike pathways and new train stops, and recently made some tram travel free [ as a crowd-pleaser to counter petrol price hikes ], so its quite a pretty city to explore on foot or bike.
Bangkok and Danang have some great cafes .. the best seem to be when you wander a few sois away from the main shopping zones.
I especially like seeing the old wooden elevated Thai houses, which are becoming rare. Another way to find hidden gems, is walk along the banks of a klong - you get to see the underbelly of the city, without the makeup.
The locals in Bangkok tend to love the new shiny hypermalls and pristine train stations that segway into them. The air-con is nice after an hour of roadside bargain hunting.
In BKK, if you like bargains on clothing or bricabrac, I _highly_ recommend going to the top floor of the Pantip building across and west down the road from the shiny upgraded 'The Mall' Ngamwongwan. The weekend indoor market is crazy busy with affordable bargain stalls with the cheapest jeans, tees etc. Smaller but more enjoyable than the massive and more famous Chatuchak. If by chance you need alterations, there are a couple of great shops on the 5th floor, iirc - 60 baht hems, wow. The 4th? floor foodcourt is quieter than most. There is a whole floor of Thai buddhist good luck charm amulets. You'll have to run the gamut of outdoor stalls to get into the place, but that can be fun. There is also an incredible coffee shop down soi 27, called "High Coffee Roaster". I was stranded looking for my airbnb, and a local came out of a shop and asked me if I was lost .. then recommended a local cafe I could wait at until checkin. The cafe staff caught me smelling my coffee, as it was so good, and then gifted me a tiny dish of ground coffee specifically to smell .. incredible coffee and superb service.
Title: "The Locals Don't Know"
First line: "My best piece of travel advice is to avoid doing what the locals do."
The writer seems incapable of distinguishing between the special, cool local things the locals KNOW about, and which a tourist might well benefit from trying, and the things locals DO because they don't do those special, cool things every day. Instead locals are usually doing similar things to what we normally do.
Which renders this article rather pointless.
Speaking as someone from Edinburgh where the locals are notoriously jaded (ask someone that has lived in edi for a few years what festival shows they went to this year): It's more that we _forget_ rather than never knowing.
Asks me what cool things to do nearby on the spot and I'll probably draw a blank. But say what you are doing instead and I'll probably go "oh yeah! That's brilliant! I love thing X".
I do know where good dog walking spots just outside Edinburgh are though, and I'm still regularly discovering more because I'm effectively a tourist ;).
I struggle with this too in Edinburgh; I make a point of trying to stay engaged and keep recognizing how amazing the place is from the outside.
Going to the festival (and the book festival, back when that was in Charlotte Square) is improved by leaning into your local status and knowing how to duck in and out. And ideally knowing someone with a lanyard who can get you into the media bar: it's not cooler and more happening in there, it's actually quieter.
There's a vennel route across the city. It's an odd experience going through a deserted and mildly unpleasant alley, stepping out into a shuffling horde of tourists, cutting sideways across their paths, and ducking behind some bins into another quiet path. Like walking from the wings of the stage across it.
Further, he specifically mentioned Bordain, who focussed predominantly on food, and I think the concept of doing what the locals do is hugely rooted in choosing a restaurant. As in: locals won't eat in overpriced tourist traps, and will have had the chance to try enough local spots to know where's good. So if you want to choose a (e.g.) Chinese restaurant, choose one with lots of Chinese people in. (This applies whether you're in China or elsewhere.)
That sort of advice never made sense to me. I used to live in a very non-touristic place, and there were tons of terrible food places, despite only being able to live off "the locals" who were supposed to know better.
Well, it dépends: there are a lot of places where the locals goes because they are cheap not because they are good.
But yes, ask the locals.
> there are a lot of places where the locals goes because they are cheap not because they are good
Por que no los dos? The whole cheap/good-choose-one thing is not universal in my experience. I've rarely been steered wrong by trying out the cheap-and-cheerful local option
I don't even know if I accept the premise.
When I was an expat, there was a subtle kind of experience in settling into buying groceries and getting haircuts from the local providers. Or shopping for furniture for our own apartment, or hiring someone to do remodeling on a house...
But, I'm the type who also finds enjoyment in the same scenic trails and camping areas visited hundreds of times in my life in different seasons, etc. I don't need to try to see everything once in a superficial, whirlwind of a tour...
this, you need to find the active locals that care about their community. the curious ones that like to explore and they will tell you. i could show you places in vienna that no tourist has ever seen, right in the center of town. i have gone on a day hike with a family in japan, up the mountain right near where they lived. no idea how well known that place was. same for new zealand and other places. china is touristically well developed. mostly for domestic tourism, so there finding the special spots only the locals know is more difficult. but they do exist. one friend took me eating at a local buddhist temple in the small industrial town where i lived. people taking me to their favorite hangout spots gives me a glimpse of what local life is like.
[dead]
They know more than the author that’s for sure.
[dead]